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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. camp went from recon to solo practice buildout.

I’m your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today’s episode is called "Recon to Solo Practice Buildout — with Steven Camp, MD."

As a new surgeon entering the marketplace, it’s nice to join a hospital or practice that takes care of the business side so you can focus on what you enjoy most and that is surgery. 

But oftentimes, you ended up wanting more.

Today’s special guest is Dr. Steven Camp. He is a Board-Certified Plastic & Reconstructive Surgeon in private practice in Fort Worth, TX.

But he didn’t start out in private practice. Dr. Camp went into a multi-surgeon insurance-based practice performing reconstructive surgery. 

The risk was minimal since he joined a thriving practice that was already set up and working. 

He didn’t have to deal with the business or marketing side and that was fine by him.

However, after several years, Dr. Camp got restless so he made some moves and is now in his own brand new building with 2 OR suites that he will share with other surgeons in the area. 

Listen in to this week’s Beauty and the Biz podcast as he explains his journey of how he got there. 

As usual, it’s never an easy or straight path (but what fun would it be if it were?)

Visit Dr. Camp's Website

Transcript:

Recon to Solo Practice Buildout — with Steven Camp, MD

Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Dr. Camp went from recon to solo practice buildout. I'm your host Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice, What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.

So today's guest is Dr. Steven Camp. He's a board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon and went from recon to a solo practice buildout in Fort Worth, Texas. Now he received his medical degree from the School of Medicine at Texas Tech University. He did his general surgical residency at Carolina's Medical Center, his plastic surgery residency at the University of Utah.

And he did a fellowship with somebody I know well, Dr. Daniel Mills out in California, who is the past president of ASAPS, which is now known as the Aesthetic Society. Now, Dr. Camp serves on several aesthetic society committees. He's a nationally recognized speaker for Sciton Laser Company, a member of the RealSelf ad board, and a member of the advisory board for Allergan Medical Aesthetics.

So Dr. Camp, welcome to Beauty and the Biz.

Steven Camp, MD: Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me, Catherine.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. And I know Austin, Texas, but I don’t know. Fort Worth where? What are you close to? How does this relate to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: So, I mean, we're really close to Dallas, which is kind of how people know the airport, Dallas Fort Worth. And so we're about 30 miles, 40 miles west of Dallas.

And just about the same amount north from Austin. So we're very much north central portion of the state of Texas and you know American Airlines actually headquartered in Fort Worth. So yeah, I mean that, that's kind of where we are. So you can draw a big bubble around the Dallas Fort Worth airport, more within that sphere.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha.  Actually, I used to be a frequent flyer of, so I know that Dallas Airport very well. But I haven't traveled much at all since, you know, for a while, like everybody else. So let's hear your journey, because I believe you started off in Chicago and then you bounced all over the US with your studies and your training, and then you ended up in Fort Worth, Texas.

How did that happen? How does this relate to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah, I, I, so I was born in Chicago and my, my dad worked for Sears which was, you know headquartered in, in Chicago for many years. And he, he worked in a field where he had to do a lot of international work. And so he spoke Spanish well and did a lot of business with Sears and companies trying to expand into Latin America and in Mexico.

And he ended up meeting my mother who was working for Spanish Consulate at one of these offices when he was on a business trip in New York. And so that romance sparked just via work. And my mom is Colombian, so I'm actually half Colombian by background. She and my dad Started off, you know their life.

In Chicago, that's where I was born and we, we lived there till I was a young boy, but ultimately we moved down to Texas and for the most part, I, I grew up in San Antonio. Gotcha. And did college and undergrad in the state of Texas just like a good old Texas boy. And then once I started matching into surgical residencies I was fortunate to match into the hospitals.

I really liked where I interviewed and so for general surgery, I really fell in love with North Carolina. And that's where I met my wife Sarah. And then from there we headed west to, to Utah. And then we spent time obviously with my old boss, Dr. Mills and Laguna Beach, which was wonderful experience.

And when that was all done, we decided to come back to Texas. So we actually live about three streets over for my wife's parents and Oh, nice. So that's kind of what brought us all the way back around here, full circle. So that's kind of the route. And so we just went one step out of a time. It wasn't the anything specific or planned and then all worked out.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Great. And did you go straight from recon to solo practice buildout after fellowship or how did you set up shop?

Steven Camp, MD: I did. I, I, when I left fellowship, I actually joined a, a private practice. It was already existing with two other plastic surgeons. So we, we had a small plastic surgery group of three surgeons and I did that for about four and a half years.

And as I started kind of to cultivate kind of I guess my areas of interest in plastic surgery I became more focused on the aesthetic side of surgical treatments, especially body contouring and breast surgery. And decided I wanted to kind of create, you know, my own independent practice to cater to those patient needs maybe a little bit better.

And so about five years ago, I, I went independent and my wife and I started that practice ourselves with one other clinical nurse. And so was a solid, beefy team of three people. And, you know, we've, we've grown it from there over the last five years. And so we stayed very committed and dedicated to aesthetics.

Which at, at first was a scary leap, but it, it just matched our interest. And what we wanted to be able to do was focus and really give the attention to those patients so that we could deliver not only excellent surgical quality, but kind of attentive pre and postoperative care in a way that hospital settings.

Emergency call can be interruptive to. And so that's what we've done. And been just really happy with it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? In today's world with the insurance the way it is, I just don't see how you can juggle both very well. I think you can do it, it's just not very well because the insurance side will take up all of your focus and time and effort.

It's demanding as heck. And then the, the cosmetic kind of fits in where it can and very difficult to toggle between the two. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: I think you're exactly right. And I think, you know in that situation it is very helpful to kind of be able to have a focus within your practice so that you understand the procedures that you're doing and what those needs are.

And then also the business side of it, which quite frankly, no one learns well in training. So we learned the process of evaluating patients, diagnosing and treating them and then caring for them not only during their acute surgical phase, but well after that. And that really is the scope of what we learned.

And then after that you know, it just kind of expected that you would be doing enough to kind of take care of employees and pay an office building and. Cover a lot of business expenses that aren't seen, especially when you're an employee at a university hospital. So private practice is a, is a totally different animal and it was all very much on job training.

And I think that as you know I think that's probably a common refrain amongst many of us in our space, both plastic surgeons, dermatology and other people that are committed to aesthetics. It really is the practice of taking care of your patients, but then it's also. Entire business to run as well.

And both are full-time jobs. And they can be a lot of fun. But there's certainly a lot to learn. And to tell my wife that we just became accidental entrepreneurs because we, to figure out what we wanted to do with the, the scope and the scale of the business. And we're still learning that.

And so I, I learned this from one of my surgical teachers in residency and said, you know, one of the great things is that, you know, if you're paying attention every day is a school day. There's always something to learn. And, and that's true .

Catherine Maley, MBA: And you'll really learn about yourself. You know, you really learn, like, do you have any interest at all in running a business? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

You know are you okay with accounting or talking with the legal people or, you know, there's so much more to it than you realize when you get into it, but frankly, most people wouldn't even get into running their own businesses if they knew what went into it. So probably naivety is your, is your friend at that point.

So when you, I, I love to hear how you started the private practice. Did you rent space? Did you go all out and, and build a building? How, what did you do?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah, so, you know, I, I was in an, an interesting situation where I had joined an established practice and had an office and other You know, patterns of, of managing flow of patients and clinic space already established.

And then I had to uproot that and start all over again. And so that started with trying to find a space. And in the window of time between my decision to leave the group practice I was with and start my own practice, I had to figure out what that would look like in terms of an office setting and where my patients would be seen and where I would do surgical procedures and how I would manage all different kinds of things, including the accounting and the legal entity in corporation.

And of course, there was a huge loan. And so it was, it is, it was overwhelming. And but I think one of the things is, is that there was a vision about what we wanted to have our practice look like. And so we, we went back to square one and then you know, I just said, you know, we got to focus on one thing at a time and just treat them like dominoes.

And so using that my, my wife and I talked and we met with other people that were in the business world that had nothing to do with plastic surgery and banking and accounting, and said, Well, you know, what, what does it take? We ask people, you know, what does it take to open a restaurant? What does it take to open a hotel?

My wife's family was involved in publishing and we asked, you know, what do people do in, in the publishing industry and in newspapers? And so there was a lot that we gleaned from. How do you want to write the business plan? And so I would say that the first thing you have to have in mind is what is it that you do that's great or an individual unique skill?

And then talk about how you do that because a lot of people don't know how somebody makes sushi or what's involved in creating a hotel space or a car dealership, right? And so but people who do that in their industries and people like us in aesthetic surgery understand our services. And so we wrote that stuff down and we, we created a blueprint and a flow for these are our skills and then how are we going to deliver them?

And then we created a patient flow, and then we created a volume and we assigned a volume to that patient flow. And that built a projected revenue cycle. And so, like I said, I didn't know any of this by residents here by training, and some of it I gleaned from different areas and books. One book I would be completely remiss if I didn't mention by name was a book called Traction by Gina Whitman.

And a lot of people that start off on this pathway I think run into that book at some point. And it talks about how to think about your business and it talks about how to build around that and put the right people in the right seats. And so that was something that was new and foreign to me. And we rolled all that stuff up into a business plan and then, Ask people what we would need.

And I took as much as they would give me . And then with that, I tried to spend as little as I could out of the gate. And, and that was very, very challenging. Because there is that uphill climb where you're being busy, you're, you're doing things and the bills have gone out, but accounts receivable haven't come back in, and it all ends up being okay, but you don't know it's going to be okay.

Until that happens. And so you feel a little bit like you're rolling a ball up the hill and you're getting close up to it, and then every day at the end of the day, the ball rolls all the way back down to the bottom again. But you know, so those are the things I think that we learned.

And I, I think that what we, we figured out is, is that there's all these different categories and we had to learn what the categories are, and we had to learn how to be more organized. And then we had to learn where we were going to spend our time, what skills we had, and what skills we didn't have.

And so that helped us hire a phone person and helped us focus on the clinical nurse. And then as volume grew, we needed people that could coordinate with our surgery, planning, the calendar, the patients and collections. And so all of a sudden, three people grew to five and then to seven, then to nine, and then to 11 as, as the volume of work expanded in that direction.

And so I think the first thing was understanding our business and then understanding you know, a value assignment to things that we did. And then from that just being logical and saying, Here's what we think we can generate. When you start off out of residency, that's very difficult and you just have to kind of assume and try and understand market values in your geographical territory.

In my case at least, I had the benefit of, of four years of practice, albeit not on my own but at least an understanding of on an average, you know, month and a quarter and then year what I could do in terms of volume of cases. And so that was particularly helpful.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Were you going to stay in reconstructive when you went out on your own? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Were you still going to do recon and dabbling cosmetic, or did you jump and just go, That's it. I'm doing cosmetic now.

Steven Camp, MD: No. You know, I think that when I first started I had a very broad practice e everything from facial trauma and, and injuries and burns to breast cancer and facial cancer and tumor reconstruction with a mixture of some cosmetic surgery.

How did that work out? And it worked great, you know, and I mean, for the most part I made myself available and tried to take care of, like I said, one domino at a time. And I'm, I'm probably going to sound really repetitive because I think that's probably the thing I learned the most is, is that you can only do what's in front of you.

Your mind will tend to wander. And the better you can focus, the more efficient you can be, and the more you can actually do and more of that at a high level. So that, that's kind of what I did. And then eventually breast cancer reconstruction became a, a steady stream of, of referral to me and developed some relationships.

And so when I spent the first two, three years of my practice, I, I narrowed things down from everything to basically breast cancer and, and cosmetic surgery. And then as, as time went on there was kind of a decision to make because both required a significant amount of, of time and demands and the, the patients I mean, I think deserved you know, quality, undivided attention and ultimately made the decision that our volume and capacity for growth and ability to manage life and a schedule was better in the aesthetic arena.

And so we chose that and committed to that hardcore about three years ago. And so I think it was a gradual process. And so there was, you know, certainly an intersection of that being my interest. I did plastic surgery residency, like everyone that does plastic surgery. But then in addition to that, I did an aesthetic dedicated fellowship to further home certain specific skills and Take on a, a few little extras, if you will, both surgically and non-surgically.

And I feel like that made a difference for me early in my practice, allowed me to fast track high quality results to my patients. And then that became, you know, understood and passed around via word of mouth. And so there was my interest and then also then there's just what ends up happening.

So there's, there's parts, passion and parts your practice picks you as well. So and I think I could have fallen into other things such as breast reconstruction. But it just so happened that that this is the way it worked out and I've never looked back. I've been really happy with it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So when you went out on your own and you were still doing recon, were you doing it at hospitals, at a surgery center or at that point had you built your own or? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: No, and you know, and, and I'm still in that world.

So yeah, I definitely used hospital based facilities and hospital owned surgical centers. And there's certain cases in the immediate cancer setting in some of the larger tumor type cases that were in the hospital. And then there was different stages of care that were in outpatient surgical center.

And so it was possible to blend both early on at first. But then it became more and more difficult. And now 100% of the things I do is, is for the most part you know, surgical center based. They're all hospital owned surgical centers. But that's, that's the nature of it. And generally speaking, outpatient surgery.

And in that process, you know there's shared facilities, shared overhead, and that's nice and it's also reduced risk. But I also think that there's less ability to control the environment, right? And in particular with scheduling and discretion and to a certain extent Kind of clarity on instrumentation and personnel that might shuffle between different surgical services, whether it be orthopedics, plastic surgery, or general surgery.

So it became clear to me that I really wanted a, a very focused, dedicated team with you know, quieter, more discreet, pre and postoperative areas. Low traffic and easy access. And when you go to a, you know, a place that might have 10, 14, 15 operating rooms, there's many different patients there.

And so it became clear to me that if I could control that it would provide unique value and elevate the experience for patients. And so that started the pathway that my wife and I had of, well, It doesn't really exist, and we don't know that anyone's going to cater to these specific needs because we are just one surgeon out of 20.

So I think we needed to do it ourselves. And I think you know, like, like all good business questions, you know, you, you start with a good question. And the answer on what to do is always, it depends. And I think for us, it, it depended on what we wanted to do more than what was, you know, quote unquote the best thing to do or the smartest thing to do.

Certainly there's, I think, some degree of risk that we're taking on. And certainly we're starting over that process just like we did with opening our own practice with a business plan and new financial arrangements. And then, and on top of that, the real estate side of life and the kind of Quality assurances, inspections that go into normal office building versus surgical suites.

And then there's a whole set of rules and templates that go onto that there. But I think our experience with our private practice gave us, I think, enough courage to say that we're going to do this because it's what we want to do. And so you know, I think there's a great saying, you know, if there's not necessarily that job out there that exists, that's perfect for you.

So if, you know you want to have the job that you've dreamt about created creative, and I think that's very much entrepreneurial 1 0 1. And, and so, so what did you do?

Catherine Maley, MBA: Did you buy a building and build it out? What did, what did you do? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: We bought land. And so we bought, we bought an empty plot of land. I can, I can actually see it from the office I'm in right now, Uhhuh.

Cause it's adjacent to the medical office building that I'm, I'm in. Nice. And so we looked around town and, and trying to find a place that would work that would still be centrally located to where current patient base was, where our life was. And, and we happened to find one right next to the building that I'm in.

And so we went through the real estate process and built on to what was now you know accounting team and a legal team that we'd had experience with during our practice and added a real estate team. And then with that team, they, they gave us guidance on architects and builders. And we interviewed, you know, four or five different construction groups and several different architects.

And whittled that down from four or five to two. And then ultimately partnered with a development company that's been instrumental in a lot of project planning and oversight. And, and I think that's the key takeaway. You can't write it all down in a booklet or organize a timeline in a calendar and get every single thing in terms of regulation, accounting, legal building, and organize it on your own.

But you need to know that you're not going to know everything. And then you need to know that you can't be everywhere. And so learning how to expand and to delegate is based on effort, due diligence, but then ultimately that leads to trust. And you have to trust certain components and allow that to happen.

And if people are passionate about what they do there, there's a goal, there's a, there's a vision attached to what you're doing then you can start setting guideposts for yourself goals, if you will, and then tackle those again, same way, one domino at a time. So we happened to find our property and get going on our construction, and then there was this thing called, and so, you know, it's added timeline and some delays and stress.

I mean, I think that for our practice, we definitely were. Sidelined, I would say for a good three months, just in our current office. And so all of that translated into other downstream effects with our build project, which has been about a three year process. Oh wow. So what's the ETA on the new building?

Tell me. August 26. It's August, Yeah. 24 days.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh gosh. That explains, Cause I was thinking I saw on Instagram you were looking for surgical staff and I'm thinking… How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: We are, we're hiring and, and so, and, and I, you know, I think that's nicely into a lot of different things. It's like, you know I'll have, you know, people in our space, some, you know, Younger years and experience and more, but trying to tackle same ideas.

You know, who do you hire and when and do you want to build your own surgical center and, and how, what does that look like? And I don't think that there's any specific one way, but we're trying to slowly build out a team and, and do that. And so yeah, we're, we're adding clinical personnel. That includes recovery room nurses.

We partner with an anesthesia group that's going to help us with that anesthesia core that we'll need for our surgical center. And it'll be two operating rooms. And so ideally we'll invite other surgeons in the community that, that need access and are, are committed to that same idea of you know, high quality high convenience.

And I think it's going to be great because I feel like a lot of people that are in our plastic surgery world feel the same way. They want an area that feels like it's focused to procedures that aren't every day for other surgical centers, whether it be a facelift or whether it be, you know, complex liposuction with bad transfer.

So sometimes the equipment needs, they're just slightly different. And then the room set up can be monitored so it's more comfortable for both patient and surgeon. And I think that when you borrow Places that are, are designed for 98% of the other surgery that goes on in this world.

That's what you run into. You run into certain things that create access restrictions that just limit efficiency. You know, you always can work around them. There's never anything different and that's the way it's always been. But I think that's been the most energizing part is to feel like we are going to have that level of control all the way from entry to exit and the, and the patient experience.

And so, and when you turn that over to any kind of third party it's nice that someone else takes care of it and it's off your plate, but it's also frustrating when you can't control exit and arrival and departure times and discretion maybe to the level that you want to.

Catherine Maley, MBA: What I hear over and over again from surgeons is it was a pain in the neck to develop the darn thing. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

The, the thing that saved them was having a killer nurse or somebody who really knew that surgical world to run that thing like a military operation that was very helpful and it, it was not the profit center that they thought it was going to be. However, the convenience and the efficiency of it was priceless.

That's what I hear.

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. And you know, I, I think I've heard exactly the same thing. And to be honest I don't know that it will be profitable or even cost money. And, you know I, I think that for most people they say it's a break even, Right. And it creates enhanced convenience. And, you know, the response I would have to that is, is.

If you're not spending any extra, you know overhead that you're not returning back to yourself, but you're becoming more efficient, then you're just enabling yourself to do more volume of cases and capitalize off things in that way. So when you take all of the moving parts, like you said, you need a very highly skilled motivated, independent leader of those surgery centers.

And I feel like we've really found one that's great. So I'm excited about that. And that was actually our first most important hire for the new surgery center is an OR director. And, and they're taking a very lead role in interviewing recovery room nurses, circulators. And so it's become a very team effort.

And it, it, it allows us to do a lot of different things and we're allowing ourselves to have access to interview nurses in different people while I'm operating somewhere else. And then we can all convene and with the interruption of covid, we've all kind of learned how to zoom and do other things so we can really catch up and, and do a lot of things kind of in parallel that we didn't use to do because they were just weren't traditional business practice.

At least not for us. And so we've kind of borrowed some of those, some simple survival tactics and business hacks from Covid and tried to integrate that into this. And then I think. You know, the thing that we learned early on is we couldn't do all of our own accounting. We certainly didn't know the law, the legal ins and outs of what's required for different things.

And so we, we learned, you know, how to find people that we thought we could trust and, and delegate appropriately. And, you know, it's never perfect, but I think it's the only way to go. And I think that it is impossible. You are rolling that ball up the hill by yourself. If you do it by yourself and then you, you have to, you have to figure out how to build a team.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And would you say that your biggest challenge just staff and trying to build team building, would you say that's your biggest challenge? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: It is.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Any tips, Any tips on that one? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yes. I think number one is, is mostly patience with, with yourself. Because there's, there's all these moments where you, you lean back on things that you did and you go, Okay, I want to do this differently.

And then you try something differently and it creates a different set of new challenges that you hadn't anticipated because you just didn't know. And so number one is to be patient. And then I think the second thing is to try and understand how all this stuff works and I came across this as well and my, my trying to learn about business and what made people successful is people talk about finding the right situation, or I need to find my right job in life, or I need to find my right partners or my coworkers.

And I think it's really about development versus discovery, right? So people feel like they're separated from their perfect life, their perfect house or perfect job, maybe their perfect relationship, whatever the case may be. And they spend a lot of time talking about what's not right. Maybe, you know, their coworkers or not buying into the culture.

And, and so very rarely do people lead with this is where I need to develop myself. And so it begins with self-development and then, I translate that into what we want to do in our office. And we have people that have been with us for the entire time. That started from my own practice where they started as front desk, and now one of them is one of my two co-patient coordinators.

Oh. So her skills evolved in their time with us because she sought it out and, and we allowed it. And I've been in places where people hang on to the idea that someone's good at front desk, we have that, we don't want to disrupt that, so let's not rock the boat. Problem with that is, is, is that it creates the potential for any employee.

And the leader to get stagnant. And so if there're always a level of development you're trying to move them along to phases where you're moving on to, you're the boss and they work for you. And the relationship is based on permission and hierarchy. And then as time goes on, you can get to know what that person's strengths are, what their interests are.

We had another person was in our front office and told us after a year that she loved skincare and wanted to go to aesthetician school and didn't know how to do it. So we worked out a way to send her to aesthetician school. Nice. And that cut her hours away from being a full time employee. And then we had to figure out how to hire a second phone person and how she would cover.

Her tuition because she wanted to do it desperately, but financially needed resource assistance. And so she could have stayed working in front desk and we could have stayed isolated in a relationship defined by permission. I'm the boss, she gets paycheck from me. But the, the relationships both with my patient coordinator and now my new aesthetician are ones I didn't have when I started four years ago.

And they're valuable employees with loyalty and they're people that I know well beyond a technical skill and hopefully they know that about me as well. And so that ability to develop each other I think is what I've learned. And I've tried to use that as the fulcrum for how I'm going to be able to move forward.

I don't know what the next two years holds exactly. I don't know what seven years from now looks like exactly, but I do know that I'll need to kind of continue to enhance and develop my own skills as a leader as a physician, as a surgeon and that, you know, when things get a little bit stressful, tap into that resource of how am I developing myself within the office and are there talents in the office that I'm not tuned into or paying attention to?

And I think that would be maybe the biggest learning that I've had. So it's nearly 10 years of post-residency life now for me. And I think it is incredibly simple, but for some reason I never distilled it into the idea of development versus looking for the right position.

Catherine Maley, MBA: You already said it earlier, you create it, it takes so much maturity to get to that point, because when you're younger, you're looking at the external world saying, So what do you have for me?

And you're looking around, so where's the answer? And you realize, Oh, I get it. I have a vision in my head and I go out and make it happen. Right? There's nothing simple about that, but that it's all about creating, not finding. Gosh, that's a big deal. So it sounds like I going to plan are to, but it sounds like you bring in a partner, just bring in the outside surgeons to do some in your surgical location.

Is that the point? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. And you know, I think I love the idea of having a partner and I think that I'm still trying to figure out what my business looks like for me. Much less try and tell somebody else that they're going to join some situation that's going to be great and perfect for them.

So kind of answer that question. I do have somebody that's going to come and share the office building I'm going be in. And, and we evaluated that concept of a, of a formal partnership and having him join the practice and the difficulty in evaluating their independent desires for clinic and available office space and phone personnel versus.

There are salary demands and overhead requirements everywhere else became a blocking point. Yeah. And I'm sensitive to that because in, in many ways I lived through that myself as, as a young surgeon leaving training, joining an established practice, which was very fortunate to learn from. And it, it, it helped me understand a lot of different concepts about the overhead that another person brings into the office.

And so our discussions led to a mismatch and where. Certain overhead needs would be relative from my point of view and that person's point of view. And so we just agreed to work together. And so we're going to not, you know, worry about losing patients via a, a website lead or a phone inquiry because of who staff is there that day or, or things of that nature.

But at the same token we're going to work together to build the infrastructure. The experience for patients is very much unified and the same. But the bank accounts are separate. And if he wants to take six weeks of vacation and I want to take eight, that's okay. And his own, his own independent practice and website and employees.

But at the same token it's something that I envision being, you know, long and lasting working relationship and. You know, ultimately we, we, we want the, the building, the practice and the infrastructure to grow in its value. And I think that that allows for people to partner together in something that has the value to it that is asset assigned.

And I think that there's a lot of difficulty in defining what a medical practice or an aesthetic surgical practice is worth when you just take a revenue norm, right? Because the same procedure may have different fees charged and different abilities and volumes on an annual basis from one surgeon to the next, and not necessarily is a discerning mark on quality, but it just makes the potential for there to be a mismatch on what one revenues assigned purchase value is.

May not mean the same thing in a, in another person's real worlds experience and you're overpay or underpay.

Catherine Maley, MBA: But learning that now versus getting into a partnership and getting all legal and then finding that out, you're so much better off now. Just you already have figured it out. Like, you know what?

We're going to run our own thing. You know it's going to run their own thing. We're going to share resources and we'll leave it at that. I think that's a brilliant idea, quite frankly. Yeah. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. And I, I think that it, it, it takes a while to figure out what you want your own rhythm to be. Right. And I think there are people that I know, great friends that are in groups of four, five, or even six plastic surgeons.

And it, it matches everybody's ethos. And everybody's okay with that structure. And, and that works. But for a lot of us, I would say probably 90% of us we have a very independent mindset Yeah. About what we want. And sometimes what we're doing for three or four years can change. And so having that flexibility is very important.

And not feeling either. Beholden to a certain financial restraint or held back because of, you know, being ultra conservative or risk averse is also important. So having that freedom is, is very important and I think it keeps people happy. And I think you can figure that out. You don't have to figure that out by hiring a partner and a young associate out of the gate.

I think that that's certainly an option. And that's how I came in. And I, I would say that the more clearly defined you can make that on ramp the better it is for all parties involved. So there's not the potential for score keeping and wondering if somebody should be in a better situation either via time, via financial resources.

Or, you know, freedom to pursue their creative interests because of a, a practice, a built in practice restraint. So it, it, it is highly complicated but I think that either one can work. But when, when I'm at my current associate, it was clear to me that the ability to control certain aspects of his office and patient flow just like it is to me was very important, right?

And, and so within that, we're giving each other space to explore that, do it in the environment that best suits us, and then ultimately our patients. So I think that will lead to the, the best relationship in that, in that way. And we'll see where this takes us and maybe more people will come.

I mean, so Fort Worth's not far from one of the largest airports in the world. A lot of people move here every year.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, from, from California where I'm at.

Steven Camp, MD: A lot of, lot of Californians are coming and so there will be more people coming and more opportunity and, and, and we might find that we had so much fun doing this.

We want to do it again in a few years. But let's see.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So I know your wife is very active in your practice. Any dips on that? Because I've seen it go all sorts of different ways. How, how does that work out in your practice? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Mostly great because you know she is the better half. But I would say that you have to u understand what's that relationship like and for, for my wife.

And for me it gives us energy to think about work together. And that's not always the case. I, I know that there's a lot of couples I know in plastic surgery or in other professions in life where when work's over, they want to unplug and talk about something else. Whether it's outdoors, whether it's art, whether it's sports and that they, they want to compartmentalize in that way.

And I think if that is inherently the situation, it does create a little bit of oil and water friction that doesn't need to be there. That makes it hard to want to stay committed to the, to the work project. And then at the same time, it also, you know, contaminates the, the out of work environment.

And so I think that that's the, the council is just to try and figure out your personality. And for my wife and I, we started off thinking we would never want to work together. Her background was in cardiac surgery. We met when I did general surgery training, and then ultimately she stayed in cardiac surgery world until I decided I needed to go on my own.

And I needed a nurse and She was willing to take my best offer, . And so, so it became you know, something we identified via necessity. We didn't know it. And so five years later it's still this. And she became very, very hungry and passionate about things. Like the accounting side of things.

She became a student of marketing, right? She became very intrigued with the, the concept of social media and a website built. And for a lot of days after long day in the operating room. Those tasks are a drag. And when I get to go home and think about them with my best friend and sometimes over a glass of wine, it expands our creative juices, it expands our work hour potential.

And for us, it makes us feel connected. So even though we work in the same office, it'd be eight to 10 hours where I'm in the operating room and she's somewhere else. And so it, it allows us to, it's essentially our baby. You know, we will get to work on the same thing together. And it's, it's, it's the thing we both have to do out of out of work necessity.

And, and within that we found a new commonality a new layer of depth to our relationship that wasn't there before we started working together. And so that's why it works for us. When it's another layer that adds depth to what you're doing, then you can work with your spouse. When it creates conflict then you have to.

Be aware of why that is, and doesn't mean you can't work together at all. It just means you might have to be aware of what capacity creates the trouble.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I have found that it's really important to have boundaries with each other. Yeah. Like you do the surgery, she does the marketing, you do what you do Well, she does, she does well. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

I have found that that seems to be the easiest way to go about that. But it's also helpful not to have that kind of wife that like pops in in her yoga outfit and, you know, says hi to the staff and how's it going and how you do, what are you guys doing? And then leaves again, that causes a lot of havoc, often in practices because then the wife is this part-time fluttering around kind of thing.

And your wife looks very intelligent and committed and I mean, I think she's, she's doing it the right way. Just if you wanted make 2 cents.

Steven Camp, MD: Well, I mean that's definitely anyone who knows me well knows that's the secret to any success we have. And I mean, I think I'm. Pretty good at being a worker B.

But definitely that there's the whole world outside of this and I think when people try and do it alone, that's a huge problem. And then obviously, how do you find the right ways to build people? I was lucky that my wife was kind of there and built in and, and for us and our personalities, it works.

I will say boundaries are important, but I will say that I have learned that and she has learned that both of us have boundaries that aren't necessarily static. And so I would say it's a little bit more like counterbalancing. And so there's moments where we start tipping over in one direction and then we have to kind of auto correct.

And so boundaries are a part of that, you know, when you dip in and when you dip out. And patience is a part of that. So, you know, sometimes you have to knowingly let the other person dip in and know that you will too. But then, you know, there, there does come times where you have to make a lion sand and, and create that boundary that, that you created.

So for us that's it. It's, it's, it's a constant dance. And I wish it was as easy as everything that we drew up on a set play, but we're, we're just kind of going with the flow.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I've also noticed though, that you have a nice emphasis on surgical as well as nonsurgical. And can you just talk about your med spa? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

You gave it a name you put some effort into it. What's, what's the plan there?

Steven Camp, MD: You know, I think that plastic surgery was very surgery focused for a long period of time, and I think technology has brought a lot to the field of plastic surgery and improved outcomes for patients and in that space non-surgical services, the injectables skin treatments, lasers fat reduction have all blossomed in that ecosystem.

And it's I think successful people in aesthetics and in plastic surgery understand connection with patients and not every patient wants surgery. And sometimes maybe they want surgery later. And so I think that plastic surgery when I first was in my residency training, there would be a lot of debates with patients wanting something that was more lasting, maybe a more significant procedure with downtime, but a lasting effect versus something that's kind of quick in and out but doesn't give you the same quote unquote durability.

And then at what point do you assign bang for the buck or value? And I think that was the debate and I can't remember the last time that was a nonstop concern for my patients most of the time. Now it's about timing. Do I want to do both these things together? Do I want to phase into this over the next five years and then consider surgery or maybe not at all.

And so it's become part of the continuum for patients. And I like to tell patients and people that I talked about this, well, I think it used to be surgical and nonsurgical kind of either or, right? And I think now it's better together. And so and my practice has 40 to 50% of its financial revenue now comes from nonsurgical activities.

And it used to be 5% Good for you. Nice. Nonsurgical. And, and that's just because patients have grown up with us and then new patients are learning about us. And so we just have a larger funnel and we collect people from TW 20 to 70, 20 to 80. And then slowly you start gathering more people in different.

Compartments where maybe Botox alone in some skincare is what they want, or maybe they're 70 and they really, really want a facelift. And so the, the growth of our practice and connection to patients has led to that. 80% of my patients and are, are still moms. Mm-hmm. , you know, and, and to a certain extent even more than that, like, you know, if you consider, you know, grandmoms, but it's the moms of the moms that have come in and asked about facial stuff and that's grown.

And then, you know, the. Kids that were younger on, these moms that we took care of eight, 10 years ago are now in college and wanting skincare. And so we've, you know, grown with that. And now our nonsurgical services expanded to meet that. So within my office, we have basically a nonsurgical arm. But I consider just part of my aesthetic treatment for patients kind of, you know, the, the rejuvenation on the younger patients in their twenties and then, you know, maintenance and then rejuvenation.

And then after rejuvenation they stay on the maintenance train. And so that's allowed us to have a connection to patients. You know, term that used to float around I don't hear very much anymore was patients for life. And so we, we've embraced that concept in the office. And that's allowed us to think about what would we want for ourselves, our family members.

And so, you know, a perfect example of that is the Cyan laser. Everything we do is connected to skin. Everything. I do have a potential aging change on the skin or an incision area. And the flexibility of that platform to treat skin, take care of it and treat incision lines has been a real game changer.

And I feel like it's done something new and elevated for patients in my practice that I wouldn't be able to do just as a surgeon. And so I think that those things have, have made it where it was. And then I've gotten involved with Orange Twist, which is another med spa separate as a different entity from my practice.

Yeah, so Orange Twist. And you know, one of my mentors Dr. Stevens, and I thought it was his, I thought Stephens Orange Yeah. Who had been involved with HydraFacial and other companies for years came up with the concept of you know creating access to nonsurgical services in a non-intimidating way.

And, and I think we're now seeing. Explode. I mean, I think that there's many different quote unquote chains of med spas if you want to call them that across the country in Orange Twist is definitely, you know, at the table in that space and in, in that discussion. And we're one of the newer entries in, in terms of you know, having been around for a few years.

And then, you know, Covid interrupted California as a state, maybe more, as intensely as any place. And so there's 16 centers or so nationwide with Orange Twist, and 10 of them happened to be in LA and Orange County. Right. So I, I was fortunate to be early in on the, the idea of this med spa where we would basically take these services where people would have.

High impact, minimal downtime, and be able to integrate things like Botox and HRA facial and nonsurgical services into their lifestyle without having to go to a medical doctor's office. And so that's the, the, the concept and the premise. And it's been a lot of fun and it's, it, it creates a different space that is solely focused on, on all the things in the world that we can do that's non-surgical that allows them to be treated quickly and, and kind of more in their neighborhood.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Outside of the medical district model of Orange, is it the of scale, you're just a much bigger buying power, so you're getting supplies for a lot less than if you were on your own? Or are they giving you also marketing plans? Are they branding you are for, get that hanging around or being connected to grant students? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Well, you know, I, I don't, I don't know that I, I, I look at it that way. I, I think that there's a huge area for growth in nonsurgical services for sure that exceeds the growth potential for surgical services. And then, so, and what are we going to do to tap into that growth potential? And you want to reduce friction.

And so parking in a doctor's office that may have 15 stories and a, a parking deck and several layers to go through in a waiting room of surgical and non-surgical patients for an eight minute Botox appointment becomes a drag, becomes absolute drag. And so the orange Twist itself, just like any large company I'm certain has purchasing power, has other things, but that's all behind the scenes.

For me, it was a way to continue to grow and to stay on the leading edge of access to what patients were interested in and be able to extend services and care to them. And without creating that, that quote unquote drag of the doctor's office it's the same reason that I think I eventually became motivated to build my own surgery center.

So I think that had I never gotten involved with Orange Twist, I wouldn't have really expanded my horizons and thought about how I could change that part. I would've just accepted the fact that surgery happens at the surgery center and the office thing happens at the office. And been very binary in that thinking.

And so it became very appealing to me because it opened my eyes to something again that was very business centric but about consumer understanding. And so our consumer growth, our access in the aesthetic space is going to have huge influence from the non-surgical world. And we want to reduce friction and we want to make that easy for our clients.

And then for my postsurgical clients, I want to make it easy for them too. So if I can put an orange twist that's, you know, three minutes from their neighborhood and not 25 minutes into the medical district, why not? And why not expand that footprint and grow that? Learn from it and be able to do more.

And so I think that is what appealed to me about it. So coaching, I don’t know that it's going, you know, lead to some huge great windfall, but for me, the, the, the ability to talk to people like Dr. Stevens and Clint Cornell and other medical directors that are involved and. Work with other nurse practitioners, PAs, and estheticians.

It has enriched my experience as a, as a leader for my practice. And so for me it's the relationships. And I, I hope, I hope financially it does well, . Okay. But that, that was that, that was the hook. And so that's kind of been part of it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: What is the hook? The part where you get to now you have relationships with people who have been there, done that. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

So your learning curve is much less than had you had to do it on your own. Is that the point?

Steven Camp, MD: I think that there's a component to that. Okay. But no, it, it, it's, it's, it's about, you know, any kind of thing, any kind of relationships. I think that, you know, you look at the aesthetic society as a whole and people do, I think benefit.

From relational interaction with peers in, you know, having ability to kind of set aside different ways to reflect, think, you know, both backward and forward was what the appeal was. And, and certainly because of what we talked about. The explosion and consumer demand for nonsurgical services outpaces that of surgery.

That's where the opportunity is.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. I had Dr. Stevens on my podcast during COVID because it's the only time I can get a hold of the guy. You know, when he had his, when he, like all of us were sitting still, you know, that was, felt very helpful. And he, at that point, he had already had maybe five locations and I just, I'm, I'm so fascinated with the business model of that, but you know, we are running out of time.

Let's keep going cause I want to talk about your branding. Your last name is camp. You're very good at using that with the happy campers. And you have the and then you had the bow tie, The bow tie Babes. So tell me, what was that, what was behind that and has that been helpful to have some of that differentiating branding for you? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah, I mean, I think we just, we're just like, well, you know, who are we and how are we going to share that story? And so the, you know, camp just comes from, it's an easy way for people to remember who they are seeing and who they're interacting with, right? And so and we, we want people when they come see us for a surgery, nonsurgical services to be happy.

We, we, we want to improve the quality of life. I don't think that, you know, a tummy tuck or a face lift is going to necessarily make anyone live longer. But it might make those years much better. And we all want nice things in life. We all want things like clothing or our housing environments to be comfortable to us and to be reflective of our internal style and some capacity and aging impacts that.

And so when I can make somebody happy, I tell people I have a couple requirements I want them to, to really look good. And so, and that's a barometer. And we have photography and we have beauty standards, and we have, Here's what's possible with surgeon, what's not possible with surgery. All that's very much true, but there's an emotional component to that too.

And that's part of what dictates success in aesthetic surgery is obviously you have to start with, you know, the right patient. So you have to have a good patient candidate and it has to be quality, technical procedure. And then it. It has to hit a certain mark, it has to make them feel a certain way.

So I tell patients if they look good and they feel good, then they're going to be happy campers. And that one just stuck. And it was just an extension of my last name. It was just simple. It was right there in front of me. It was not meant to be complicated but it was meant to be fun. And I think it's nice that you can associate that with the name of me, the surgeon and the practice.

And so it stuck. And, and it's also one of those things that can become kind of like a club. So, you know, you can become a happy camper. Anybody can become a happy camper. So, and so that, that just kind of stood out. And we kind of went with it and embraced it. And I think that that's just a philosophy that we approach our life and our practice with, And I think, you know, the, the patients that we take care of that want us to take care of them, Embrace that.

And so, so we went with that. And then part of doing training in the southeast is I became exposed to you know, different things like bow ties and so moving from Texas to North Carolina, I was around a lot of folks that kind of had a southern gentleman vibe to them and I was kind of intrigued by it.

And when you're you know, a resident, these short ties, they cost about half as much as a long time. And they stayed kind of clean cause I'm going to try this. And so I tried it on and got made fun of a little bit and I said, You know what, I'm just going to do it. And I, I, I rode with it through my residency.

And when I started practice I was one of the few people around wearing a bow tie. And so early in, in practice and when I do office hours I like to, you know, leave the impression with patients that it's an important event that they're there to see us for their. Surgical treatments and needs, and I want them to feel like someone is treating it like a special event.

And the bow tie sends that signal. It, it talks about preparedness, it talks about a level of elegance. If you think about going to a nice restaurant or a wedding, the bow tie is synonymous with something that I think I would like my practice to reflect, which is a, a level of elegance. And we feel like that's a, a good message and a good branding tool for us.

And it's authentic, just like camp is part of my name and the Happy Camper is, is part of it. The bow tie is part of our personal style. And then so I think when you blend all those two things together that's when the staff were all women banded together and just made themselves the bow tie babes, and it was very organic.

They did it on their own. And they've kind of taken off with that and, and run with it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And it's been a hit. Well, you have a great, or you used to have this great photo on your website, I think it was even on the homepage. And all of you, you were in your suit, bow tie for heaven sake, and then all the women were in black.

Yeah, it so cool. And it was on the stairs and you were all spaced out. And I got so elegant and then, and then I didn't see it, so I thought, why'd you take that down? That was really, I thought that was great differentiating for you? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: No, no. I don’t know that we've taken it down. I think it's probably just moved around and it's cycles.

So my wife's behind me. I don't know. Did we lose the tuxedo picture? Well, it was so eye catching. She's, she's doing an update.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. . Yeah, because I thought it was just so different than, than what you normally see, so. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Oh, I'm glad you liked it. We, I, I didn't know. I didn't know what people would think, but we had fun with it, which is what counted.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. So when it comes to social media, would you say like, what are your marketing channels for attracting patients? Is social media the way to go or anything else working for you to get new patients? How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: No, I, I think it's, it's a, it, you know, combination of factors social media was an early differentiator.

I think for me and it allowed people a little bit of access into the, the daily activities of, you know, what goes on in, in seeing patients, taking care of them. Some, you know better idea of a look behind the curtain of what surgery's like so they, they see how patients respond, not just the surgical sites themselves and.

Maybe a binder or a garment but actually sometimes having a conversation with the patient, like as they wake up or so it added layers of understanding for patients. So they could see the preoperative, the surgical side and the postsurgical result where it used to be just like, I understand that that before and after looks better, but the whole process is maybe very intimidating.

So social media took down a lot of barriers I think for patients and I think being young in practice it gave them access to understand your ability without equating that to. Being too young or too old or experienced, you just see it in action. And it speaks for itself. Anyone can say whatever they want to say.

Anyone can have an idea about what experience they think they want or what they think they want their doctor to look like. But ultimately, once they see something that matches what they're looking for it resonates. And so that for us stuck. And I think we stayed active in other places. Worked on RealSelf and answered questions and loaded photography and then built out a website with content.

And so, and there was no one specific magic bullet. And I'd say that as time has gone on, being consistent is most helpful. And so and then the other thing is There's a mixture of things from my life on there. So social media is different than my website. The website is very focused on outcomes.

And then the, the ins and outs of why a patient might want procedures and then instructions and so on and so forth. And then the social media channel is reflection of everything. And so I, I think patients like to know something about you. I think it takes some separation away and it makes the whole idea about talking to a physician less intimidating.

And I don't care who you are. Yeah, I don't care if you're a guy talking to a guy, man to man, or if you're a lady talking to another lady to meet someone early on and then talk about a physical feature, Be your nose, your body, or something like that. There's something about that, that's not every day experience.

So social media can take that away and say, Well, here's somebody that you know is like me. You know, they have kids they go on trips they look tired on the weekends sometimes. And you know, you can see us doing family photos. So just like anybody else, I have things that matter to me. I have things that, that I have to deal with.

And, and it, it, I think, makes that connection with patients more understandable. Where it used to be, you know, white coats, sterile doctor, patient, very, very. Harsh boundaries. I, you know, think you have to be careful about blurring lines. But authenticity I think is a word that comes up a lot with social media channels.

And so I think you don't have to have a ton of followers or anything else like that. I think be yourself. And if you do that, And you're consistently there. You'll have a base of, of patients that's comfortable with you. And I think that that can be great. A great resource. And then the website has probably been the most consistent thing.

You know, it's the tried and true, but I, I will tell you that it's taken us years to understand where patients come from exactly. But our volume of, of, of patient traffic and data still tracks highest through our website. And that's our greatest volume of information on procedural information to educate patients, and then illustrative information on before and afters.

So they still spend time there and it still ends up being. The destination point from which they tell us they come to us. But RealSelf is important. Google reviews are important. Being in the community is important. Being on social media is important. And so I think there is an ecosystem component to that.

It's a new layer of work that didn't used to exist. And I think anyone would admit that there's times when you need to. Give yourself a break even. My colleagues who are extremely active on social media you know, when we have separate conversations, talk about the need every once in a while to unplug and take a break here and there, and you'll even see them announce it on their social media channel because they're so active and so accessible that when they do take a break like that you know, if you don't put people on notice, it creates this strange panic.

So, so it's another variable to manage. But at the same time, I, I, I think it's a new reality. So and I'm sure that you have to deal with social media as well. I mean, you know, I'm sure you'd impacted what you do on a daily basis, Hasn’t it?

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, well, I use my dog. I, I saw your dog. He's adorable. And you've got the kids and it just shows that you're a well-rounded person.

You know, people want to see who are you, you know, And it really shows. So you're doing a good blend of educating as a surgeon, but as a husband, a father a dog lover. Yeah. So you're hitting lots of points, interest points that we consumer, cosmetic patients like to hear. How do you think this relates to going from recon to solo practice buildout?

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. Well, sure.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. So my last question would be, tell us something that we don’t know about you and doesn’t relate to you having a 50/50 Surgical vs. Non-Surgical practice.

Steven Camp, MD: Oh wow. I think a fair number of people probably wouldn't expect Spanish to be my first language. Are you? Oh my gosh, yeah. Yeah. So my mom's Columbia. And you know my last name's camp because my dad's got, you know, the most kind of British type background from South Carolina. So he's from South Carolina, but my mom's from South America, so it's an interesting kind little background.

And it was fun kind of growing up with those Different kind of cultural perspectives. But that's all I've ever known. And I, I think that surprises people because they expect, you know something different when they see the last name camp. But that's true. It's a very much part of who I am.

You know, I have a strong Latin heritage, but you know, also my dad's side of the family has not, not a single Latin bone in their bodies that I can tell. And so you know, I got to learn a little bit of language from my mother, but unfortunately all my bad dancing comes from my dad. I saw you dancing.

Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry about that. . That the other thing I think is, is that you know, I've been a lifelong Cubs fan cause I was born in Chicago. Me too. And so Go Cubs.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. I still have my Cubs hat and people out here, but it says C because my last, my name is Catherine, so I go with that, but it's really Cubs.

Steven Camp, MD: There you go. Yeah. So, you know, I thought we'd never see them win a World Series and, you know, low and behold a few years ago they pulled that one out. So that was.

Catherine Maley, MBA: The Chicago fans are ridiculously optimistic, you know, and they'll, they'll hang in there forever until something good happens.

Steven Camp, MD: Yeah. So I've got a book at home called, Wait Until Next Year.

Catherine Maley, MBA: That's so funny. Ah, well, thank you so much for being with me on Beauty and the Biz, it's been an absolute pleasure and everybody that's wrap it up for us this time. So if you've got any feedback for Dr. Camp, you can certainly head over to his website, it's www.CampPlasticSurgery.Com.

A big thanks to Dr. Camp for sharing his journey on going from recon to solo practice buildout.

And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.

If you’ve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don’t miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.

And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.

-End transcript for the “Recon to Solo Practice Buildout — with Steven Camp, MD” Podcast.

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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how Sheila Barbarino, MD has practices in LA and Austin.

I’m your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today’s episode is called “Practices in LA and Austin. How? - with Sheila Barbarino, MD".

When life throws you a curve ball, you have the choice to duck, run away or figure it out.

That’s what Sheila Barbarino, MD did. She figured it out.

Dr. Barbarino, a cosmetic surgeon of the face and body has a thriving practice in LA with celebrity clientele, lots of PR media opportunities and a great reputation as the go-to source for expert techniques for injectables, laser and aesthetic devices.

All was well until she experienced a pull to set up another practice in Austin, TX (you have to listen in to find out). 

This week’s Beauty and the Biz Podcast is my interview with Dr. Barbarino describing her journey from LA to Austin to worldwide lecturer, innovator and industry thought leader. 

It’s quite a ride!

Visit Dr. Barbarino's Website

Transcript:

Practices in LA and Austin. How? - with Sheila Barbarino, MD

Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice - What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. Now I'm very excited about today's guest.

It's Dr. Sheila Barbarino with practices in LA and Austin. I just love saying her name. Barbarino and she's a cosmetic surgeon of the face body, and she's got offices in Southern California and Austin, Texas. We're going to ask about that. Now, Dr. Sheila Barbarino is an industry thought leader. Innovator author of 15 papers, worldwide lecturer and trainer on expert techniques for injectables laser as well as aesthetic devices.

Now, Dr. Sheila Barbarino was born and raised in California and did her internship at New York Hospital and her residency in ophthalmology at New York Eye and Ear Infirmary. She then did a fellowship in general, full body, cosmetic plastic surgery at the Beverly Hills Surgical Group,, as well as a fellowship in facial plastic surgery at the Morro Institute.

Dr. Sheila Barbarino been a five time recipient of both the Compassionate Doctor Award, as well as the Patient's Choice Award recipient of the Aesthetic Multi-Specialty Society Award, LA Magazine’s Super Doctor Southern California, RealSelf Verified Doctor, and the coveted Woman of Achievement Award for Lupus –  LA.

So welcome to Beauty and the Biz, Dr. Sheila Barbarino as you discuss your practices in LA and Austin, it is a pleasure to have you.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. So I'd love to start with how you got to where you are with practices in LA and Austin. Because most little girls don't grow up saying I want to be a surgeon. Then I want to be a facial surgeon. Then I want to be a facial plastic surgeon.

And then, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, I also want to go with the body. So just, can you give us a synopsis of your journey and how it relates to your practices in LA and Austin & thighs?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Sure. So originally I did my medical school at Jefferson university and I knew I wanted to have women as my patients, as my patient base.

I really am a girls girl, a woman's woman, you know? And so that really is, are the patients I really enjoy. And so I was, I thought I was going to go into OB GYN or something like that. And then I really got interested in Olo facial plastics because at Jefferson they have Will's Eye Institute, which is the eye Institute and they had a wonderful oculoplastics team there.

And that's when I was like, oh my gosh, this is what I want to do. So I went into ophthalmology and ocular facial plastics, which is my bread and butter, and that's what I really love. And along with all the other things, but we'll get into that. So after I finished my first fellowship in ocular facial plastics, you know, I came out and my patients are like, wait, so you only do bye.

So. Like eyes and like, I don't understand. And I'm like, no, no, no. It's like, it's a really big deal. You know, like that's a really important area. And you know, patients that were really happy with me were like, well, can you do other things, you know, can you, can you do life a section? Can you, and then I started to realize that, you know, maybe I would like to go a little bit below the neck and do other things.

And then I'm like, gosh, you know, that requires more training. So that's what I went to Beverly Hills, you know, where else are you going to learn? Great body plastics. And so that's why I did a whole body cosmetic. Body plastic surgery, fellowship. And that was a ton of fun. And I learned lots of things there, and I learned how to do lipo and fat transfer and all these other fun things.

And then I started really analyzing my techniques as a facial plastic surgeon. And I was like, gosh, you know, I want to learn from the best, I want to be an even better facial plastic surgeon, because I saw so many bad facelifts in Beverly Hills, you know, hopefully not for me, but you know, but I did believe that there's got to be another.

Level of really knowing a really good face. And so I did an extra facial plastic surgery fellowship after, as my third fellowship. So over trained, but you know, I think that it has really given me a really strong foundation for everything I do, as far as injectables injectables. It's, you know, people are always like, well, why do you still do injectables?

And I, I love my injectable practice. And the reason is, is because you really get to know your patients, you get to know their stories, you get to hear about their families. You get, hear, you know, kind of foster their journey. Their beauty journey in every step. So you, you start off with them when they first take their first sleep with you with Botox and injectables and lasers, and then later on, continue their journey with surgery.

So I really enjoy that aspect of my practice as well.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, it sounds like your business model, in regards to your practices in LA and Austin is kind of like a one stop shop or women who want to not only get to the looks they want, but reserve the looks they have, or even renovate (at your practices in LA and Austin) or rejuvenate the looks they used to have. So -

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Yeah.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, you're doing that with surgical as well as nonsurgical and you're going face and body at your practices in LA and Austin.

So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino , you've got all angles covered as a business with practices in LA and Austin. Has that been complicated because you need different skill sets, different staff, different processes. Sure. What about that part? Like, you know how you can go two different, you can go lot to different ways, but one way is pick a procedure, get good at it and, and put your, you know, flag in the stand.

And, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, this is going to be my procedure, or you go the way you're doing it, which no I'm going to be everything to everybody (at your practices in LA and Austin), but for a specific patient target market. So which your strategy on that?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: So I can honestly say that. I certainly do like every other surgeon, I have my favorite surgeries that I like to perform.

And then there's some surgeries that, you know, I, I know I can get a home run surgery surgical results on this patient. And then there's some that I'm like, you know what, there's someone that's better in town that does this particular procedure that you need. And so I think that being a good surgeon is not only knowing.

You know how great of a surgeon you are, but also knowing that, you know, there are other procedures that you might be better at. And so I think that that's really where I have kind of come into my own is I've really understood what I'm good at and kind of, you know, sent my patients to other surgeons, why I feel like that's maybe not my best procedure or maybe I can't achieve the result that they're looking for, because it's maybe more of a difficult case and not, you know, a home run slam dunk result.

And, you know, as a female, as a VA, female and very aesthetic female, you know, I want the best outcome, whether it's me or it's my patient or my family member or my best friend. And so I think that that's ultimately, you know, my true intention for every single patient that I see and that I think kind of gives me a little bit of an edge because I think.

Most doctors don't take it as personal as I do, you know, because I look at them and I'm like, gosh, if I were them, this is what I really want to see on myself. And can I get that result for this patient if I can't then I'm certainly not the doctor for them, you know? And, and that's okay. You know, I think that they'll appreciate me even more if you know, the honesty is there and the sincerity is there and you know, my intention is for them to be the most beautiful version of themselves, you know, who doesn't want to be that, you know, every single day.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, is the goal in regards to your practices in LA and Austin, versus a one, you know, a one… What's it? One and done?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: One and hundred percent. I think that, that I have my entire practice has. Rested on the last patient I've seen. I can honestly say that, you know, in California, when I first started my practice, you know, that first patient has still been with me, you know, to this day.

And it's really important to me. And everyone says, you know, oh, going back and forth between Austin and LA you know, that must be tough. And it really isn't, especially when I get a catch up and see my patients and see, you know, what's happened with their families and what's happened with their lives and, you know, really been on board with their beauty journey.

I think that my patients have followed me from, you know practice to, you know, different practice locations and all of these things, they've been super loyal and I feel the same way about them. And like you said, a patient for life is really the goal. You know, I always say whether we do something today, tomorrow, next year, or never, you know, I like to make a beauty plan for the next, you know, 10, 20 years until I retire until we both retire rich, you know?

And I think that that's, you know, ultimately that's what I really want in a patient. So, you know, if they are one of those, you know patients that do in Austin, believe it, or not more than LA, I see a lot of these patients that kind of doctor shop and talk hop from one doctor than next. You know, they're unhappy one little thing and then they hop to the next and then something else happens instead of going back to the doctor and giving them the chance to correct that.

Procedure, you know, we're not mind readers. If the doctor really wasn't clear or wasn't familiar with your, you know, muscle, you know, structure or everything, you know, all of these things, you know, come into account when you're treating a patient. So you really have to take all these things into account.

And if you haven't known the patient for too long, or if you haven't had this patient for years and years and years, you don't know what this patient's expecting as far as an outcome. So if you work together, just like, you know, I always joke around that work kind of overpriced hairdressers, you know, because really, you know, when I look at your hair, your hair is beautiful, but you have a very different hair type than I do.

Right. So, you know, if I were to go to your hair person and say kind of do the same thing that Katherine has, you know, I doubt that they're going to give me you know, a look of oh yeah, no problem. Right. And they shouldn't. Right. They need to know what my aesthetic goal is. And that's what I think I really want patients and other doctors to really take away from this is that, you know, really understanding your patient's aesthetic goals is I think the most important part of the consult then, you know understanding that they have, you know, a timeline that they need to get ready for or understanding that they didn't like this surgeon.

You know, when people say. I don't like what this provider did for me. What I like to do is I like to ask what they didn't like, because I think that it's so quickly, especially all of us that know each other in the business so quickly, we're like, oh, I know what they do. I know why you didn't like what they did.

I can see it a mile away. You really want to know what there's so many times that, you know, I'm looking at someone's duck lips that are like the most ridiculous thing that I've ever seen in my life. And they're like, oh, I didn't like the filler that this, you know, provider gave me. And I'm like, well, I can see why I'm in those lips.

Just smack me in the face, on the way in, you know? But then when talking the patient, they're like, oh no, I love my lips. It's cheeks that I didn't like. And you're like, what, what are you talking about? Yeah. So, you know, to really get to know what your patients, you know, like and what they don't like in, in learning from, you know, past mistakes and things like that, that really does help.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, from a patient's perspective, even at practices in LA and Austin, I love going to the same provider, because number one, if I'm comfortable, I will complain directly. I won't leave. I, because I, I like that person and we have a nice relationship. One of the reasons they're leaving is because they don't think. Anything's going to happen, you know, that's good.

So they might as well start over with someone else (even at practices in LA and Austin), but as a very busy professional, I'm not dying to run  all over town and create, I just want my, like, just like my hairstylist, my hair is this long because I go to somebody who understands that .

I don't want short hair, you know? And I come back very regularly for the last, what, 25 years.

And she gives me what I want. I know what's I expect I get what I expect. And I'll tell you, I think in today's world, this Uber competitiveness the more relationships you have of that, that solid relationship, where that patient wouldn't go anywhere else, but with you, I mean, that's just priceless,

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Priceless.Yeah. I would rather have 10 of those every day than 25 new ones. I mean, really those, you know, it's quality, not quantity. And I, I always, you know, joke around with my staff, you know, that's, if we have. You know especially during these times that like, you know, people are getting sick, you know people are traveling, you know they didn't make their flight, whatever the case is.

And we have these unexpected cancellations and we always joke around, we always say quality, not quantity, right. So we can make the day a very fiscally successful day, you know, off, you know, even the smallest amount of patients. Because if you take the time and, you know, imagine. Kathryn, when you go to your provider, if all of a sudden they have an extra hour to spend with you and you're like, well, you know what, why don't we finally do all those things that we were talk about doing?

And I never really, you know, blocked out the time or you were always running a little bit late. Right. And you can spend that time to like really do all those things or plan for the future of what you're going to do for those things, which is, you know, important quality time that, you know, often we don't are, we're not fortunate enough to get in our day, you know, mm-hmm

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, regarding the business side of things and how it relates to your practices in LA and Austin, I don’t know if you have a D.D. or what, but you are in two locations, not only do you offer a lot of procedures, but you're in two locations now I'm also in California, Northern California.

And I used to have a rental property and a love life in Austin, Texas. I know it quite well. I know that area very well. It's super competitive now. It feels like the whole world ended up in Austin. So not only have you chosen once tough location, but you also have LA. Which is the other huge competitive location.

So, what is your thought process at your practices in LA and Austin? How are, how did you end up starting another practice? And then how do you manage two practices that you're at half the time?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: So, it wasn't a conscious choice of going into another market that was so competitive that you can't even breathe. It's I actually think Austin is become more crowded than LA because of it being a smaller town.

LA is much more spread out. And, but I think that Austin is such a small town. I mean, there are. On my one street, I think there are like 27 providers that do exactly what I do, which is -

Catherine Maley, MBA: I know your street very well in Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. And I thought, oh dear, she's playing a bigger game boy. Cause that's it's and they're heavy hitters there. They're not just, you know, I mean they're solid, you know?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll, I'll be honest. I'll I can honestly say that. I think there are good and bad providers in Austin. I haven't seen as many, I feel like in LA if you're not really good, you kind of get kind of creamed. I don't know what other word to say.

Like, you know, you kind of put yourself out of business here. I don't think that that's the case. I think that there are, I've seen horrible, horrible, horrible providers, and I've seen really, really good providers. So I think it's kind of runs the gamut. So it's, it's different, but the reason why I came here was my husband came home.

I don't know how many years ago now and said, you know as you know, a lot of the bigger companies have moved out of California because if you employ over, I think it's 150 workers, but my husband was like, he employs probably about 400 and he's like, I've got to move my company. He's just like Toyota and Lexus and everybody else out of the state of California, because it became so employee friendly that you couldn't even run a business.

And so he's like, we're going to Nevada, Texas, or Florida. And I was so busy in my LA practice that I was like, well, I'm not going anywhere. I'm super busy. I'm good. You go, you go, do you? Yeah. He bought two, 300,000 square foot buildings here in Texas and. We, he kind of went back and forth for about a year.

And then he was like, you know what? I need you to, you know, kind of my son and I to move there. And I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, well, I, you know, you're an entrepreneur, like I'm a doctor. We don't like just pick up and like move, you know? And I was already established doctor in LA and I was like, I don't want to start over.

It's hard work. And he was like, no, it's going to be great. And then, you know, one by one, like I said, the first year, you know, you're kind of sitting around whistling Dixie and then, you know, those. Few patients start telling other patients what was really nice was originally actually, when I first got here Austin was producing a lot of HBO and NBC and ABC and Netflix stuff.

And they were giving a lot of incentives to those companies. And so a lot of my, you know a, B, C, E D E, whatever actresses and actors from LA were actually seeing me here which was kind of really fun and nice, you know, and they were driving a lot of business to me, which was really, I was really grateful.

And you know, like you said, you know, one happy patient can drive so many patients and, and to see you. And I think that, like you said, if they have a good relationship with you and they're like, you know, I like normally what you do, but I hated the way you did my lips. This is not what I wanted. And you're like, no problem.

You know? And I think that, like you said, you grow together and you figure out what your, you know, beauty recipe is or what you want to look like, what you want to feel like. And then once the provider and you come to that kind of understanding, then, you know, just like a good hairs is just like a good, you know, personal stylist.

So once they know your style, then we can really bring out the, the best version of you in every way. You know, every time like you said, I attend all these conferences. I go home thinking of like, oh my gosh, this product is perfect for that one patient that I didn't know what to use on her. And I wasn't really sure if this was, you know, she wanted something more long lasting and then I go home and I'm like, I figured it out.

I I've got a solution come on in. Let's try to work on it, you know? And I think that one thing that my patients really do appreciate is that. I'm always willing to try new and different things and really grow and You know, keep up with all the changes in aesthetics. I mean, that's, I think the best part about being an aesthetics is that it is, there's always something new that people are coming out with that are in that's innovative and you know, is really pushing the aesthetic bar.

Right. And that's what we all want to do. And so I think that that's why I become so engaged with the meetings and my colleagues, because I think that we can all really help each other just become better and better and better. And I think that, that's why I do it. You know, I think that there's, yes, there's always going to be a lot of crappy, you know equipment that comes through products that come through and as we share.

You know our experiences with them that we won't make those mistakes with our patients. We won't have to buy that crappy equipment that, you know, we thought would be so great and, and, you know practice changing in our, our, you know each individual practice. But if we go to the meetings and we try the modality and we talk to you and you're like, you know what, that's just not a good investment.

You it's, it's not the, return's just not there. I think that's super helpful for all of, so, you know, all of don't have to keep making the same mistakes before we had these amazing platforms to share ours.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Dr. Sheila Barbarino , I'm still hung up on that and how you’ve gotten so good at your practices in LA and Austin, because I know what it takes to run one office. To run two offices, are you duplicating everything or are you more in Austin? And now you're just slipping over to LA to do some injectables? How is that working between your practices in LA and Austin?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: So I do three weeks in Austin and one week in LA and I, I would like to make it sound like it's easy, but it's not easy.

You know, none of it is easy. I, I would love it to be easy and some days are easier than others, but, you know so I have one EMR that kind of covers both. I have, you know an EMR for here in Austin, Texas, and one in LA, but they both connect. So at any point I can always pull my file from LA or Austin, wherever I am.

And like you said, I, I do attend many other conferences, so I do kind of need that kind of remote satellite. So I make sure that my Austin office manager or my Elliot. Office manager are very good friends and that they're very good touch. I think that one thing that I've really implemented especially during COVID that I had time to sit down and write like my practices and procedures, so that if I were to, you know, God forbid, you know, die or, or whatever it is, you know, everybody could actually follow what needs to be done every single day, including seeing the patients, including you know, pre-op them for surgery, post-op them for surgery.

So they just have to look through the surgical book or the daily practices book, you know, and it goes, as far as, you know, my husband jokes around, he's like, do you think it's a little degrading to write, you know, turn on the light, turn on the music. And I'm like, no, no, they'll never miss it. Right. I mean I don't know about you, but you know, I think the reason why.

I'm a good surgeon and I am a good provider. It's because every single time I see every single patient, I do have a mental checklist, including how old is this patient? Does this patient smoke? You know, what's the demographic of this patient? Is she, what skin type is this patient? You know, I go through a mental checklist and I, I want the reason why I did such a silly, you know, turn on the lights, turn on the music, turn on the, the TV, you know make sure everything's clean is so that they, it starts to become autopilot.

You know, that, that autopilot checklist. And that's why, when I'm looking at somebody in clearing room for surgery, you know, I never, no matter how tired I am, no matter what's going on, whether my I'm sick, the kid's sick, you know people are quitting or being fired or whatever the case is. When you have that, that mental checklist, you're never going to forget it because it's the same thing you do every single time, all the time.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, when you take the time to figure out these processes on everything at your practices in LA and Austin, and actually document them with checklists and we go so far as to documenting them with videos. So we call it the how to video library and it's to do our business because there is nothing worse than having that one staff person who thinks they're indispensable because they've set themselves up for that because you allowed it and we've all made that mistake -

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Enabled it. Yes.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And then when it happens, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, you're like, are you kidding me? I don't know what to do without this person. I don't want to be in that vulnerable position anymore. And so many practices are set up (even those practices in LA and Austin For sideways, things like that to happen. I just, I've gotten to be really serious about how do you do what you're doing and get it on video because you can walk out the door or get hit by a bus or quit or whatever I need to know. What are, what are you doing here?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: yeah, no, I think that's amazing. I think that that's so key, you know, I didn't like you I've been held by the throat by many people that I've hired and then, you know, they have their secret passwords and their secret notebook that, you know, you're like, well, I don't even know how to, you know, check of my medical licenses up to date without, you know, her checking it, you know?

And it's so freeing to you know, you obviously always want to keep those people that are loyal to you know, close at hand, but unfortunately, like you said, you know, there is sometimes people get a little too big for their britches and you know you don't ever want anybody to. Not stay humble and appreciative of the practice.

And I do think that, you know, you don't want to be held by the throat. You don't want to ever feel like this person a week today. We can't practice seeing patients unless this person shows up. You know, I don't, I've, I've been there. I had actually I, I had a, an ma that she, you know, is, was lovely and she does a great job, but she really, you know, said to me, you know, that you know, people like me, you know, are very hard to find.

And I agree with her, you know, but one morning, you know, she really, you know, got a little too big for her riches and I, we, I was operating and she's like, you know, just finish the surgery. And I said, you know, I'm not. I'm not going to finish the surgery because it's not safe for the patient. It's not because I don't want to finish the surgery.

The patient was had really high blood pressure that was not controlled and it wasn't being controlled by the medication and everything we did it just, you know, and she was like, well just go back in there and just finish it. I know you can do it. You know? And I said, again, I'm not canceling the surgery because I don't want to do it.

It's because it's not safe. You know? And she said, well, I don't like the, the way you're talking to me. I'm going to go home today. And why don't you call me when you want me to come back? And I said, you know I'm going to need you to leave your key, you know? And I, I really loved her. I, I love her still, you know, and we've made amend since then, but you know, you can't have somebody that in a stressful, it's already a stressful situation.

Right. You know, I wanted to perform the surgery. I wanted this patient to be happy. There's no, although. Anesthesia's there, you know, patient's there, you know, the driver's there, everybody's counting on me to complete the surgery, but it's not safe, you know? And it's not her call and she should have supported, you know, the decision, but instead that's, that's when you're going to walk out on me, you know, so, you know, I, I don't ever want to feel like being held by the throat ever again.

You know, it's, it's, it's a tough feeling and I think putting policies and procedures in place, you know, even if, you know, like you said, when I walk away, I can give somebody a binder and say, listen, this is what you need to learn. I'll be back in a week and then let's start from there. And I think that, that, there's so many times that when I hire new people, they're like Dr.

B what do I do with this? And I'm like, check the binder, check the binder. And the reason why I do that is not lazy that I don't teach it's self-reliant and be able to look it up.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you. I hear you loud and clear and how this impacts your practices in LA and Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino.

A long time ago, a mentor friend of mine said, it's not if a, a staff person goes bad, it's when, and I thought that is so negative.

I thought that is just, but look at how quickly it can change.

Like you loved your Aunt Mae. It just takes one emotional moment. And it's like, what the heck happened? You know, Dr. Sheila Barbarino?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: And I still love her. Yeah. But like, you know, I certainly can't have her, you know, acting like that. Right. Cause it's just, you know, I was already like I don't think I can finish this, you know, because in my mind it's like, can I do this surgery?

Can I do, can I just, is this guy going to stop bleeding enough for me to just get in there and do, and then it's like, no, he's not. Is it, you know? And then, you know, at that point. In my mind, I just had to start going down that road of like, okay, you know, we need to just take a breath. Let's let me close him up.

We'll bring him back. There's always another day, you know? And instead of having, you know, a fatal complication that, you know, God forbid he stroke out, God forbid he bleed out. God forbid he has a retro balm where hematoma, I mean, any of these things can happen and that's truly devastating. Right? So for me to like, you know, waste an afternoon is not that bad.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, and, and following your own intuition is everything, especially at your practices in LA and Austin.

I think women are better at that anyway than men, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. But, Every surgeon asked when they've had like a catastrophic thing happen to them, like a lawsuit or a death or something they always say the same thing I thought I could handle (even for practices in LA and Austin). I just thought I could handle it. and I, and I turns out I couldn't it.

So I think, listen to yourself, you know, listen to your, you know, that other secret mind of your saying this doesn't feel right anyway. Now that -

Sheila Barbarino, MD: That, that is a big thing that you, that you highlighted that I think that if I can tell my colleagues, one thing is listen to your intuition more. Cause I, every time I have I'm like, oh my God, that was so much worse than I thought mm-hmm there was a patient that I was going to do surgery on and I looked at his labs and I'm like, you know, these don't look right.

And I called his oncologist and he said, he's been in remission for years. Like, and this guy was really quite nasty and he is. Oh, I thought you, you were a big, you know, deal, blah, blah, blah. Like don't tell me you're going to, you know, get all wimpy on me about, and I'm like, well, no, I'm just trying to be safe and blah, blah, blah.

And, you know, I said, you know, I just don't feel good about these labs. And he said, oh, it's just a side effect of one of the medications. It's, he'll be fine. He just had surgery last week on its carpal tunnel, blah, blah, blah. And you know, I, I, he was so nasty. And so like, you know, taunting, you know, oh, you can't handle it.

It's just a little eyelid surgery. And I was like, Ugh, what, how condescending? And then I looked at his labs again and I said, you know what? I don't, I don't want to do this today. This is not, this doesn't feel right. And I, I said, you know what and I called his, the doctor's office and said, you know what, give him some, you know I V I G and, and, you know, then we will reassess and maybe I'll bring him back next week.

And he saw him back in the office and apparently he had come out of remission. He had full blown yeah, CLL again. And it was like, I'm like this guy, if I brought him back, he would've never stopped bleeding. And so, you know, there are so many times that I'm. You know, I mean, when I got back to the office and everyone's like, oh, how did Mr.

Soandso do? And I'm like, Ugh, I actually decide not to do it. And this doesn't happen often, just because I'm telling you about these two isolated, you know, you have to remember I'm in a surgeon for what, 16 years, 17 years. And you know, these are just isolated incidents that I'm like, God, I'm so glad I listened to like my gut and decided not to do that. You know?

 Catherine Maley, MBA: All right, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. So let's switch over to the more fun side. The marketing side of having your practices in LA and Austin. I like that one the best because you can control that better.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: You're, you're in the person to go from this, your wheel. I love it. So from you, for sure.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, regarding differentiating when it comes your practices in LA and Austin, you have differentiated yourself in a couple ways.

Number one, I mean, you're, you're using your womanness as you should, because it comes across as very caring, but I mean, women just must love you. And I love that.

You're the girl’s girl, you know, you're really pretty, but you're still really natural and normal and yeah, most patients actually don't want to go to a Barbie doll, especially for practices in LA and Austin, you know, like you can't look…

There’s a patient for everybody, but especially Austin. It's much more natural there.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Yeah. So that's great, you know, you know, the market . Yeah. Have you noticed a big difference between the demographics of the. A hundred percent. I mean, people, you know, it's, you know what I think it's really funny is you, every once in a while I get these like, you know, 60 year old patients that have not done anything and they come in there and, you know, they have everything going on and they're like, I know you're going to say I don't need anything.

And they have, you know, gray hair and I'm like, Oh, honey. I, I don’t know if you've read the reviews, but I'm not going to say that but, you know, I, I think that I, I, you know, I, I think it's interesting that you're saying that, you know, using my womanness, but, you know, I don't, I don't think of it like that. I really think that in my, my male colleague is, can attest, you know, I think my most engaging conversations with all of them are probably about the business, because I think I love talking about aesthetics and that, you know, but I mean, I, you know, I really don't have them too common with them.

I really ha I was raised by my single mom and you know, so I really feel good when I make other people feel good and beautiful and you know, and like I said, you know, even. You know, when I was deciding what kind of doctor I wanted to be, I knew I wanted to be a woman's, you know, doctor, because I think that that's, you know, naturally what I gravitate towards, but I do believe in women empowerment, I do think it's important to support other surgeons within our field that are female.

I think it, it. I God bless. We have the amazing male surgeons in the field as well, but I think it must be really tough for them. I don't know how they do it, because I think that, you know, when I wake up in the morning and I see my jowls and I see, you know, my, my eyebrows and I'm like, gosh, I would just look so much better if it was just up here, you know, I don't know how you know, anybody could have that perspective unless they, they really do not only empathize with a problem, but sympathize with a problem.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you Dr. Sheila Barbarino. Yeah, it's just, I just Guarantee, I'm just positive that your patients open up to you more on the emotional side of why they want this versus keeping it clinical, in regards to your practices in LA and Austin, because you actually can't bond with somebody when they're staying surfaced, you know, you need to share feelings.

So, I mean, I would just use that as much as possible, but another way you differentiate. you definitely have some guts.

I'm watching your thread rhinos.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Oh, God.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Holy cow, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. At your practices in LA and Austin , like what just, can you explain that? And did you make that up or? I never had seen that before.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: It's very cool. Right. So in my face my facial Plastic surgery, fellowships. I learned how to do rhinos. I have to tell you, it's probably not my favorite surgery to do.

It's because it's exact opposite of everything I've ever learned to, to do surgically. So, you know, all of my surgeries are very meticulous and very soft and very precise and rhinos I think are very aggressive and very. Pounding and, and rearranging and very aggressive with the tissue. And I'm just never really like that.

But I think that when, when I did do rhinos, I don't do them anymore. I didn't enjoy them the way I enjoy my other surgeries, because I, I had such great outcomes, you know, and I think that I had great outcomes with rhinos, except it just takes so much longer to get there. Number one, and number two, you know, the nose constantly changes as we age three things continue to grow on our face.

Our ears are Chan in our noses. And so, it's a constantly evolving thing. And I, I also am someone that does appreciate. Different beauty, not just the Barbie beauty or, you know, stereotypical beauty. I think that I appreciate, you know, very strong noses. I appreciate curve noses. I appreciate all those different kinds of noses.

So sometimes when be positions would come in and they're like, I don't like this. And I'm like, gosh, I think it looks really good on your face, you know? And I understand that everybody there's something about everybody that they don't like. I feel like noses are one of those things that, you know, I I'm looking at the dad and the mom that are there with the kid for the rhino.

And I'm like, gosh, you guys all have this nose. It's so adorable that you guys all share this one feature and it's beautiful. And when I started doing threads you know, we, we did the liquid rhinos with the filler and, you know, obviously there's the high risk of the complications such as blindness and ischemia.

It's very high in that area. And so I thought, well, gosh, you know threads don't have that particular side effect or possible complication. And so what's really nice is that some people, you know, when they have the wider nose and they just need a little bit of elevation, you can. Kind of tent up this sleeve that we use in surgery with the thread and it kind of tents it up as well as putting them down here to rotate the nose, which is actually beautiful.

It's a beautiful result and it's so instant and quick, and there's very little swelling. Patients really love it. And I actually love it too, because you know, even I've done so many liquid rhinos and even when I do them now, I still I'm like, okay, let's do this. Let's, you know, there's always a case of, you know, small case of blindness and vascular ischemia when we do this area, you know, and I tell every patient that, but still, you know, there's always that part of me in the back of my mind that says that this can be a complication with this procedure.

And when I do the nose with the threads, that isn't a question that's not even in, in my mind when I'm doing that, which is great.

Catherine Maley, MBA: But, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, if you're watching this thread rhino & thighs procedures on Instagram from your practices in LA and Austin, on your videos, it looks so Dangerous. I mean, I, I just, I thought, oh dear God, that's, there's no way, like, you're putting that needle all the way through their nose.

I'm just thinking what could go wrong with that?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: No, it's actually fairly safe. What, you know, as long as you know what you're doing, of course, you know, every, every single procedure can be dangerous. If you don't know what you're doing. However, I'm using a cannula that, you know, I put at the tip of the nose and I'm putting it all the way through here.

It's fairly relatively safe. And like I said, once you get patients numb, it really doesn't hurt. And, you know, with the, the liquid rhinos, you often have a little bit of swelling and bruising just like you would with any other filler, but with the threads, because I'm only putting numbing down here and down here, it really doesn't have much swelling and bruising at all.

It's so funny that you say that it looks so crazy. Because the first time my, my husband he was drinking coffee in the morning and he opened up to Instagram to, to see me going in and doing a nose thread. And he's like, like spits it all out. He's like that stuff shouldn't be on the, and I said, well, you know what?

I think really demonstrates. How you know, it doesn't hurt and how, how much change you can really impact you can really make on the nose with, in, in what I do it in five minutes or less, maybe 10.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. So, for your practices in LA and Austin, you have, see how you have all different things. You have the rhino, you know, then I also saw a thigh lift, you know, with the threads.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Yep.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, and like, how do you, how do you market your practices in LA and Austin?

Everyone's everywhere because you have different age groups. I'm, I'm going to think of the genders now because they would love that the men would love that at your practices in LA and Austin as well as the women.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: So, oh, they do, they do love it. And men, men love believe it or not.

Men loved the jawline, the jawline I really thought was more of a female procedure because you know, all of us need, you know, balancing and all of us, but men and we all hate this, what woman doesn't like this area. Right. And, but men, it makes them look very masculine and leaner and they love it.

It really makes the biggest difference in their face. And so how do I market for it? I mean, you know, I think that if you do good work and you know, people will come, I try every once in a while. I, you know, obviously listen to you. I I'm a big fan. That's why I'm so honored to be part of this podcast. So, you know I think that, you know, I'm mainly a.

You know, primarily a face person, but I, I love my lipo. I love doing my BBL. Like you said, you know oftentimes when patients are so happy with all of this, they're like, well, what can we do now with this? And what can we do with this? And like you said, I think that patients, when they really get to trust you.

And they really understand your aesthetic and what you are willing to do. I think that's when they're like, well, let's look at my button now. Let's look, let's look at my knees, you know? And I think that it keeps me innovative too, because I'm like, well, I, I don't know, what can we do about that? You know?

And like I said, as a, a vain woman myself, I'm like, gosh, my arms are getting flabby. My, the back of my hands do look Vaya and old, you know, what can we do about that? And so I think that, you know, part of my journey is keeping all of us looking young, including myself. So, you know, is self-interest a little bit, you know, do I want to be the best at what I do?

Of course I do. You know, and do I want to get the best results? Yes. And I want to be able to, you know, share it with my patients, you know? And I think that that's and as far as like actual dollars in marketing, I think that everyone, you know, I, I don't really do that much. I do some real self. I do some occasional ads in, in local papers or ma magazines that I'll see.

But only once in a while. You know, I, I actually have a question for you. I think that more and more, a lot of these things are becoming paid. Like awards paid advertising and it, people are falling for it left and right. And part of me is like, kind of feels unethical about paying for being the best plastic surgeon in, you know, Austin, Texas, and yep.

People come in all the time and they're like, oh, so and so down the street, they're the best, you know, Austin's best. And I'm like, you know, they paid for that and it's like 20,000. They offered the same thing. But I do, I don't say that to them obviously. But how do you feel about.

Catherine Maley, MBA: There's reality when it comes to practices in LA and Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino. And then there's morals, you know, and you have to decide what your values are, especially when it comes to practices in LA and Austin, or New York for that matter.

If you really do think you are the best, you can't say that and you need a third party to say it, and that's where the pay to play comes in. So I, I just know a really good marketer can, can out outspend somebody, outsmart somebody else. Who's not willing to market. If you, I don't know if you can rest on your laurels as much in today's world with all the fanfare going on and yeah, the influencers there's so much coming at us that you really do start saying, oh, you're the best good.

I can stop looking. You know, I, so. You just have to, you have to, you know, figure that out. Like, what are you willing? How far are you willing to go?

But like, let's say for example, social media you can have a ton of people on there saying how great you are and you do the best at your practices in LA and Austin, but I would make it so authentic. I would really choose from the people who already know, like, and trust you.

They're already coming to you at your practices in LA and Austin. Hopefully they're an influencer. And I know in LA there's a guy, I won't say who it's, but right on his patient intake form, like the third question. How many followers do you have?

And, he only selects those who have, A certain amount of followers. And then he literally works with them and says, you know what I'm and they have an agreement I'm going to do great work for you, and you're going to share it to the world.

So you have to just decide how far you're willing to go with that.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: That's interesting. Yeah. Do you think that it's, it's worth working with influencers and that type of you know, medium?

Catherine Maley, MBA: I think it could be such a double-edged sword. Everyone's really happy at the beginning when the agreement just started and there's, it can always go sideways.

So like everything else in life there's such duality to that they can be your worst, you know, your worst nightmare, your best friend. So that's why I like to go internal anyone organically, anyone who already loves you and they happen to. Be somebody, you know, that's terrific, but I would just be so   careful with boundaries.

Because a lot of them like the influencers, they want an awful lot for nothing. And I just think, I just   think we're getting smarter as a consumer and it just, you know, when it feels funny, you can,

I, you can usually feel like a paid ad. You know, you can   feel the difference in   that. So, I would always say first start organically, just hang around with the patients who already know you, who also have friends right here.

Like, you know, like, why not stay in Austin? Like you don't need, you don't need influencer in New York if you're over here. Yes. This doesn't make any sense to me just because, and it just because Kim Kardashian, I pretty sure consumers all know Kim Kardashian is paid now at this pointing.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: She doesn't do anything she gets paid.

Catherine Maley, MBA Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so, a lot of, unless yeah.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Paid ad.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Regarding social media, when it comes to your practices in LA and Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, would you say that's one of your biggest marketing channels?

For finding new patients for your practices in LA and Austin. Where are your new patients?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: You know, word of mouth is my biggest for sure. I, you know, I can honestly say that. It's so funny because I always talk to my husband about getting better SEO, but people find me on the internet pretty quickly.

I think Instagram does drive business, especially in Austin. There's, you know, it's a very techy town as you know. And so they do find me there. Oftentimes they'll follow my friends from, you know, because everyone's moving here. Right. So you know, they used to see, oh, you know, I think another my colleagues recommend patients.

I think that's a really big compliment and you know, like I just had a patient that moved from New Jersey and one of the providers that I knew there said, oh if you want someone there go to, you know, Dr. Barno and she's been. I love her. She's like one of my favorite patients. She's a who, but, you know, I think that that's my strongest.

I, I, I'm always looking for different ways to market. I just, you know, the geotargeting I've been trying, I think that's working well you know, with, but you can only do like one kind of thing at a time. So like we did salt facial, we're doing our new laser. You know, I, I hardly doubt that surgery sold like that.

so I don't know. You know, we're, we tried to do a virtual event, which was very successful, you know, I think, you know, it's a whole new world out there for marketing, so, you know, I'm still kind of navigating my way too.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, Dr. Sheila Barbarino you're doing a good job at your practices in LA and Austin with your Instagram lives, you know?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Thank you.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And you're willing to do that at your practices in LA and Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino.

Most surgeons aren't, they're not comfortable. You look very natural and comfortable and entertaining, so that has to be working well for you.

My only issue, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, is the reach is good, but it's so at that point you're just trying to bring. You know, that's quantity versus quality because you'll get a, a, an array of, of leads, but somebody's got to get through those because I don't call them leads yet.

I call them inquiries. These people are far, far away.

You know, they love you, but the, when it gets down to it, how do I work with you? Like, I have to fly. I have to stay at a hotel.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: I have to have a big screen and automobiles. Yeah. How do I, how do they get to me? Yeah. And what does that mean, monetarily?

Is it like you said, is it a one hit wonder kind of patient that kind of comes in? We do everything and they leave. I have had those patients from Instagram. You're correct. And I, I, I can honestly say those are, I think they're my least favorite kind of patients, because I want to see their follow up. I want to see how happy they are. If they're happy, if they're not happy, I don't care.

I want to see them after their procedure and it's too far for them to go. Right.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm. But, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, it's good for your ego when you have a whole bunch of people following you and seeing your practices in LA and Austin. I get that, like, you know, when you guys work really hard to become surgeons and it's so nice that you're appreciated and your skill is acknowledged, especially for practices in LA and Austin.

I totally get that. And then I become their business person. OK, wait a second. Where's the real money coming from, like follow the money. But, but do what you're doing.

Do you have any idea how much time you're spending on social media to promote your practices in LA and Austin, Dr. Sheila Barbarino? Cause that's one of my issues is it takes you to do it because you're the personality.

And then I think, you know, could you be doing something else? Two hours a day. You know, that's more, I don’t know, I don’t know what the answer is, but what's it for you?

Sheila Barbarino, MD: So I actually just did a social media panel with Steve, Diane and Kay. Dage at VCs. I, I don't know if you saw it or not. No, but it was, it was great.

It was really interesting. And I probably have the least followers out of all of them and you know, A while ago I asked Kate Dage and she's awesome. She's a good friend. And I'm like, how many hours do you spend doing your social media day? Cause I was just kind of getting going. And that was probably about three, three years ago, me three and a half years ago.

And I'm like, you know, just so I know, like how much time a day I should really invest in this. And she's like, like three hours a day and I'm like, that's a lot of time. And honestly, to me, that's too much time for me to do that, you know, and I'm busy enough, so I I'm not doing that. So I limit it to one hour a day.

Mm-hmm I consistently like, you know, like right now, you know, before we started, you know, I always take the opportunity to take a picture to post on my story. You know, or some video for later or whatever the case is, because I do think that, you know, patients really like to see what you're doing every single day.

And I. When I originally kind of hired people to manage it. Now I manage it myself. Mm-hmm you know, someday I think I might revisit that again, but I've just had such poor experiences with people that have managed my social media. It's just, it's not authentic. It's not me. It's just a whole hot mess.

But. You know, I think that, you know, one of the things that they've always said is that they don't, that patients only want to see like the practice and what you're doing in the practice. And I don't think that's true at all. I think patients want to know that, you know, I have a family life. They want to know that I have friends.

They want to know that I, you know, go on vacation every once in a while. They want to know that I'm engaging with my colleagues, you know, such as you, they want to know that you know, I'm at the meetings front and center, you know, learning all the new technology and hearing about all the things that they want to have done to themselves.

And so I think that that. You know, it's, it's different than what originally social media started as, and I think it's evolved into this, you know, kind of reality series of your, their own, you know, patients come in and they're like, oh, I feel like I know you because you know, I, I follow you on Instagram and I've seen you talk on Instagram and you know, oh, I've seen you and your son on Instagram and stuff like that.

And I think that, that, like you said, kind of brings up personal approach. Right. And whatever. Means you connect with your patient, you know, that can open the door for them to be comfortable with you and say, listen, I've got this area that I hate. Can I show it to you? You know, this is what I don't like about myself, you know?

Cause like you said, that is a very personal conversation, you know, it's, it's how you feel about yourself. It's how you feel about how you look. Right. So I think that, you know, to have that kind of introduction of, you know, like, you know, a very friendly, warm introduction that you kind of get insight. And I think that, I hope that when patients do, you know, look me up on social media and they Google me and all that, I hope they do read the reviews because I do think when I look at some of my colleagues that have.

Everyone's going to have one or two bad reviews, for sure. It's that's normal. Everyone's going to have an exceptional review. Everyone's going to have a poor one, you know, but on average I would say most of the reviews are pretty right on wouldn't you agree?

Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm and so, and I would, and I would listen to them.

We know some of them are Looney birds, but a lot of times there's truth in what they're saying I really would take them seriously. And the ones that are the nut jobs, it's fine. Like you, you can almost tell like when they're rambling. Yeah. But, But most of the time they're trying to tell you something, you know, I, I, I would, I would listen.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Great. So one of the things that my colleagues always asked, they would say, how do you, are you ever afraid that patients feel like you're upselling them? You know, when they're in the practice. Cause you know, you're like you came in for one syringe and you're a hot mess. Like we've got to, like, you know, do break this up in stages and all that.

And then a lot of my reviews is, you know, Kind of honesty is the best policy. And you know, if you're, if you're one of those people that, you know, you think you're going to tell Dr. Barbera what she's going to do, you got your, you got that wrong. You know, I, I think that, you know, again, just like a high price hairdresser, I'm not going to go in and say, you know, I'm, I'm a medium, dark brown, not a black.

And I don't like it to be, you know, I think that's their job, you know, that's what they studied. You know, this is what we studied. And so I want to tell them, I want them to tell me what bothers them, but I'm going to tell them what I'm going to use, how I'm going to treat it and kind of give them, you know, a couple options.

But if they don't like my options, I'm probably not their doctor. Right. So, you know, I think that patients, when they do read the reviews and they do understand that, you know, I am going to kind of go through a whole gamut. I only do it. The first consult, the, the first consultation, I kind of feel. I want to kind of run through all the things that are going to make them look more rejuvenated and more youthful, you know?

Cause then we've discussed everything just because on top of everything, patients sometimes don't know what they need. Right. And sometimes they don't know what you can treat.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, I, as a patient, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, I've often I heard them say it all the time. What do I need? Like I want to look better. What would you recommend? I mean, that's the perfect segue into, let me tell you all the things I would do to get you where you want to.

You know. Yeah. I've see nothing wrong with that.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Yeah. So that's why, that's why. And, you know, and I say, like I said, let's, you know, whether we do something today, tomorrow next extra never let's make a plan for the future, you know? And, you know I, I like to call it a Barbarino buffet cause you know, I want them to kind of pick and choose and tell me what ideas that they liked, because I understand that, you know, maybe their temples, aren't a concern and maybe we'll table that for another day.

But I do think that's one of the biggest things that can rejuvenate the upper part of the face and the entire face in general. So, you know, when they, they get into more of a groove with me, then they understand. To kind of, let me kind of do my thing and, and, you know, as a surgeon, I think, or as a provider, that's I think the biggest honor is when my, my staff always complains, because they're always like, well, we don't, we just don't some people we just don't know, even know how much time to give you, because we don't know what they're going to get done.

They don't know what they're going to get done. You know, they just, they, they know they're coming me and this is their budget. And, you know, they want you to tell them what they're going to do. And, you know, that's, I think the most fun patient. And I think that's where I hit the best results because they kind of let me do my thing and show them what I can bring them, like the nose thing.

I mean, obviously most patients don't come in and they're like, sign me up for that crazy nose thing that looks like it's painful and it looks crazy. And that's what I want, you know, but some patients they're like, you know, I know I don't want a nose job, but I do. It does bother me about how. This area is on my face.

Is there anything we can do that doesn't have a ton of downtime, you know, and you know, the next thing you know, I'm in there, you know, with my cannula, giving them you know thread rhino. So, you know, I think threads and a lot of the newer things and modalities that I do. I think that as a surgeon, I kind of held back a lot of that.

Initially when I moved to Austin, because I was like, I don't, you know, I'm a surgeon I want to operate. And in LA I'm more known as a surgeon. And I think when, like you said, Austin, you know, people, don't, some don't even dye their hair here. I mean, it is a very natural place. Some patients are never going to make it there.

They're never going to want surgery. They're never going to have surgery. So I think that's when I really started exploring those you know, non-invasive options that I thought were really important for me to adapt.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So we're going to wrap it up now on with these topics covering your practices in LA and Austin,  but tell me, Dr. Sheila Barbarino, how did you learn. Where where's your drive coming from?

Did you have great mentors? That sounds like your mom might have been helpful to that. Like where's this drive because I have to tell you, I thought I was everywhere.

You are everywhere. Like you are at all the conferences and you're an industry thought leader and innovator at your practices in LA and Austin.

You're a speaker and you write the papers and, and, and you're in two offices.

And then on top of that, you have a husband and a child. And I think, how are you doing this time? Time tips or time management tips.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: So I, I do so part of me, I, I do feel so. Blessed and honored that I would get asked to do these podcasts with, you know, people like you. I feel like it's such an awesome honor and blessing to be asked to go to these meetings.

So I feel like I don't want to turn that down because I do enjoy that. I, I, I love it. And I do, I do love what we do. So you know, that part is easy. Being spread thin at work is easy. it is not hard at all, but you know, when it does come to, you know, being I mean I think tonight we're having a play date, so I'm consolidating all the people that I've wanted to have a play date with for like the last two weeks into one night.

So it's going to be like a really big play date. So, you know, obviously time management is an issue, but I think that if you're really focused on whatever you're doing at that one moment of time, Then you can do it really well. So if I'm speaking to you, I'm really focused on speaking to you. You know, then when we get off, I'm going to be in play, play date mode, I'm going to get the house ready for the play date, you know?

And then, you know, when I go to the conference, I'm fully focused and engaged in that conference or when I'm in a room with a patient or if I'm in the operating room, you know? So I think that what people do wrong when they multitask is I feel like they try to do everything all the same time. So when you try to do everything all at the same time, that's when you forget this and that and this and that.

But if you're like, okay, I'm now in the operating room, what do I need to get done? And then, okay, now I'm out of the operating room now, what am I doing? You know, right now I'm talking, you know, to Catherine on, on a podcast, you know, this is what I'm focused on, you know? So I think that that's why you can do everything really well.

If you just focus on that one moment, whatever you're doing. Does that help? Yeah. Well, you're, you're crushing it. So keep doing.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. And my last question Dr. Sheila Barbarino is, or it's not a question, it's your request. Tell us something that we don't know about you and it's not anywhere on Instagram and something that doesn’t have anything to do with the cities of LA or Austin.

Sheila Barbarino, MD: Oh, my gosh, that's a hard one to come up with out of nowhere.

I'm sure you guys can gather this from Instagram. I have fear of missing out and I never want to miss out on anything. So I think that that gives me a lot of energy. So when I wake up in the morning, I feel like I don't want to sleep all day because I don't want to miss out on something. Awesome. And so, you know, I think I've been really blessed to be surround myself with really good people and good friends and colleagues and patients that have supported me and like I don't want to miss out.

Like I want to, I want to have, you know, an amazing practice. I want to have, you know, a practice in LA in Austin and I don't want to miss out on seeing my patients, you know, grow up in LA. So I don't want to give that up because I love them and I don't want to miss out on being here in Austin. So like I said, I, I think.

Is obvious, but I also, you know have other interests besides medicine. I like to write papers, like you said. And I think it's easy to kind of incorporate all the things that, you know, we, we like into our practice. Like I always joke around that. If I wasn't going to be a plastic surgeon, I probably would've been makeup artist.

Cause I really love makeup. And I feel like that's basically kind of what we do. Right. A super overpriced makeover. Right. right. it lasts longer. Yeah. It lasts a little longer and it it's, you cannot wear makeup or wear makeup and still a great, so that's, you know, I think that, I think that transformative bit of what people like about makeup is the same kind of thing that we like about plastic surgery and injectables and noninvasive, you know, it's that extra elevation of looking.

You know, prettier feeling prettier being more confident. And so I think that, you know, when I, I do my makeup or when I do somebody's face, I kind of take that element to everything.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Mm-hmm so would you please give us your website in case anybody wants to get a hold of you to discuss your innovative techniques at your practices in LA and Austin? What would that be? Please?

Come in. www.BarbarinoSurgicalArts.com. I'll be waiting for you and please follow me @BarbarinoSurgicalArts on Instagram and Facebook. I would love to see you guys there. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you. You are awesome. Like I said, you're one of those people that growing up in the industry, I'm always like, oh my gosh, I need to learn everything that she has to say.

Cause you're amazing.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Thank you. Okay. Thanks everybody. We are going to wrap it up now for Beauty and the Biz and how Sheila Barbarino has made a name for herself at her her practices in LA and Austin.

And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.

If you've enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don’t miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.

And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.

-End transcript for the “Practices in LA and Austin. How? - with Sheila Barbarino, MD” Podcast.

#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons 

#interstatepractices #sheilabarbarino #femaleplasticsurgeon #threadrhino

📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine

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"Beauty and the Biz" with Dr. E. Gaylon McCollough, MD FACS:

Pioneer and icon in the field of plastic surgery. In-Practice for 46 years and recently included in the National Registry of Who’s Who, as well as Best Doctors in America and America’s Top Plastic Surgeons.

Former President of AAFPRS, ABFPRS & AACS.

www.McColloughPlasticSurgery.com

📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine

⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days

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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the future of cosmetic surgery.

I’m your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients, more profits and stellar reputations. Now, today’s episode is called "The Future of Cosmetic Surgery — with Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD".

While speaking at this year’s AACS conference, I heard a surgeon give a talk called “The Future of Cosmetic & Plastic Surgery: Consolidation and Success”.

He was saying how difficult it is for a new surgeon, oftentimes saddled with up to $500K in loans, to borrow more money to open their own practice or buy into someone else’s, when they enter the marketplace. 

He went on to talk about new hybrid scenarios that work well for the up-and-coming surgeon looking for autonomy and support, as well as the mature surgeon contemplating a profitable exit. 

Since this is a hot topic lately, this Beauty and the Biz episode is an interview I did with that speaker. It’s Dr. Erik Nuveen, a cosmetic surgeon running a multi-surgeon, 10,000 square foot private practice located in Oklahoma, OK; which is embracing the future of cosmetic surgery.

We talked about how he bought someone else’s practice (with a shoddy reputation) and built it into an 8-figure practice, while performing 2,240 surgeries per year. 

And, how Dr. Nuveen is using the art of consolidation to reduce redundancy and change the landscape of solo cosmetic practices.

Visit Dr. Nuveen's' website

Enjoy!

Catherine Maley, MBA

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Transcript:

The Future of Cosmetic Surgery — with Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD

Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello, and welcome to Beauty and a Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and the future of cosmetic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying", as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits. I have a really special guest today.

His name is Dr. Erik Nuveen. Now, he's a cosmetic surgeon, who is embracing the future of cosmetic surgery, in a multi-surgeon, 10,000 square foot private practice called Cosmetic Surgery Affiliates, and it's located in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, which I've actually had a chance to visit this year for the first time in my life, and it was really nice.

So, this eight- figure, practice, which is embracing the future of cosmetic surgery, includes face, breast, and body surgical procedures performed by four surgeons in their two onsite operating rooms, which are fully accredited and AAAHC certified. Now, they also offer a plethora of nonsurgical treatments performed by many ancillary staff in their med spa, as well as online store that carries their own skincare line.

Now Dr. Nuveen and I crossed paths very recently. We were at the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgeons annual meeting in San Diego and Dr. Nuveen we were in the practice management session and after I spoke, then I listened to Dr. Nuveen's talk and his was entitled, "The Future of Cosmetic and Plastic Surgery: Consolidation and Success". So, this happens to be a really hot topic lately, so, I wanted to get his take on it because he's very immersed in it and like I said, he’s embracing the future of cosmetic surgery.

So, Dr. Nuveen, thank you so, much for coming on to Beauty and the Biz.

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. It's an honor, it's always I don’t know, may, maybe it's a point of retrospect and, and life, but to, to hear the things that I've done is kind of weird to listen. It just you know, I started off when I was six and always wanted to do surgery.

My father was an orthodontist and oh, He straightened teeth, and that was wonderful to change the perspective and often the self-esteem of o often adolescences. But at the end of that, I was always frustrated with my dad because he couldn't fix their nose or their chin. Oh. And that's really where it started.

And you know, today after finishing, you know, 14 years after college and. And eight, nine years of residency and fellowships. And then 21 years of clinical practice, it's like a blink of an eye. And I, I know I, I sound like a broken record for us that are adding up some years, but what I think what's been kind of special about my situation is when I finished up a full formal fellowship and face end body cosmetic surgery in Salt Lake City, Utah.

I had also finished a year of cranial facial surgery at Toronto Sick Children's Hospital. So, I had a pretty unique bunch of skills and also medical and dental degree. Prior to, I did a total of two years of general surgery. So, it was interesting because I, I had also along the way had taken a little time to fly some airplanes and so, I figured, well, gosh, how can I involve myself with a hobby with a skill to help others and to improve the standard of care throughout the country?

And I, I, I take that statement very seriously. That was my objective and it still is to this day to try to improve each and every day. And I hope when I do exit. That it will be at the top of the game and, and I'm always looking forward to that because each day seems to be a better day. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. So, I, I finished my fellowship and I came to Oklahoma City.

I picked Oklahoma City because the cost of living here was very low. And the opportunity to start off day one in a 10,000 square foot facility that I purchased was not Something I could do in downtown Manhattan, right? Or other major metropolitan areas. So, I live about eight minutes from my office and 12 acres and nice countryside and quiet with coyotes and hawks and owls.

And it takes me 10 minutes to commute to see patients, and it's just been a fantastic choice. It is the middle of the country, so, fortunately I get to use my airplane and go and visit the ocean often. And so, the practice really started there in Oklahoma City and I took over a preexisting doctor's practice.

He was 71 and did exclusively breast surgery. And I saw an opportunity to expand that practice. And fortunately, God willing it did. And so, I purchased that practice from an individual, kind of the old school method, a handshake, a, a gratitude, and pat on the back and. And there I started and did —

Catherine Maley, MBA: Wait, were you in a different building? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yes. Yeah. From the, from, so, he was in a smaller facility and shared with an ophthalmologist oculoplastic eye. Mm-hmm. And that relationship couldn't have lasted too long. Cause I really needed to grow and I needed multiple operating rooms to do what I had set my heart to do. So, my, my plan from day one was to come into the community meet all the other surgeons that did similar things and.

And opened the door for growth. And ultimately, I, I set the bar high. I want it to be the most dominant practice in this region of the country. And I, I think statistically we've been able to achieve that. I do. About, can, can I ask you something? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Out of curiosity, what exactly did you buy? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Because, what did he have that you wanted of value? Was that a shortcut to get into the community or what? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. So, you know, there's an exchange in life, right? You know, you, you ask for, you have communication, you hope for a response. And in the relationship with the physician was this gentleman wanted to exit and I wanted to come in.

Mm-hmm. And he had a patient flow volume of about 750 patients a year. He did a very high volume of breast augmentation and he was very consistent year in, year out. He didn't offer almost any other procedures. So, I saw an opportunity there just in the patient flow volume to expand, and it did. So, we sent out letters to 6,500 pre previous patients and inform them of our expanded services and an opportunity to meet with me and.

So, the first month I was in practice I did 57 major surgeries and I've never slowed down.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. And did you two, like were you feeding off of his credibility? Did he have to stay put for, for a while for the patients to get used to the transition or how did that work? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, that's, that's a really variable answer if you're speaking to the general public on that topic because it's all about personality will determination.

Effort and I hope good counsel.  I think that's an often-overlooked commentary is you, you need to, don't, don't do things foolishly because you think it's the right thing to do. There's been other people there before you and you really should ask some good questions and don't be afraid to hear constructive criticism.

It's, it's very common to think that doctors have done very well in school and that that translates into financial or good decision making, and it doesn't always. So, we have to admit that first and foremost, have the insight that the others have been there and let's get some good advice. So, for, in my situation, I was taking over a gentleman's practice who.

Had done almost 20 years of exclusively breast surgery. So, we had a very long proven statistical track record, and I'm very data driven. So, I did a lot of spreadsheets and demographics, co, you know, cost of living, cost of employment, and the goals that I set for myself and my business, and kind of predicted in a business plan exactly what I thought would happen.

And it's actually remarkable how close I was over a 20-year period to exactly what I predicted. It's actually freaky weird. I was off by less than a hundred thousand dollars in, in, in all the categories, which is pretty, pretty amazing actually.

Catherine Maley, MBA: But did he stay put like did you two work together or did he pretty much exit and you entered? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, I made a very thought-out contract. There were some issues related to his history that I needed to insulate myself from and isolate myself from. So, I did that legally. And he worked about two hours. And then he was released from that obligation. And then I took it from there. And at that point, I had come down two times during my fellowship met patients, knew I was on good, solid ground of communication and I was willing to take that gamble.

So, he exited immediately and I took it over from there.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, again, out of curiosity because these are the kinds of things people want to know about. Yeah. If you're taking over somebody's practice who might have some reputation issues or maybe some bad reviews, do you, how do you handle that? Do you just change the name and hope nobody notices, or what do you do? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Yeah. Well, you over his website with his SEO of 20 years of rankings, or how does that work? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. You know, today's a different era. Yeah. You know, it's 21 years down the, down the road since then. But at that point we did surveys. We sent out surveys to patients. We asked local doctors, because I did communicate with every other plastic surgeon here in Oklahoma City.

Not always to the most welcome response, but they gave me enough ammunition, fuel, and, and energy to try to approach. The challenges and also received the benefit. And the benefit was just a phone number and a website and that. Statistical demographic that was reaching out was very consistent.

And even though there were negatives and I, I have yet to meet a doctor in the country that didn't have a negative of some sort. Right, right. There are risks and sometimes we take those calculated risks and I, I think if we're, we're a wise person, we're going to really investigate background checks histories, people, they're cavorting with their associations, their friends.

It was, my situation was abundantly clear. There were some significant challenges, and I have to say, if I asked 10 of my colleagues, they might have questioned my judgment, but I just looked at the demographics. There was, there was such strong patient flow and opportunity in that patient flow that I, I went for it and, and it was a good choice.

But how does that translate to other doctors? Excellent background. Listen to others, get experts, get lawyers, get accountants. You need to surround yourself by people you trust to the end. I mean, like people you'd give your kidney to if they needed it. You, you really have to have that level of faith because these people are giving guidance about your career.

And to take it lightly is a fool's errand for sure.

Catherine Maley, MBA: What would you say is one of the biggest mistakes made that now you look at back at now and say, gosh, I wish I had avoided that one. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Hmm. Well, I got to be honest with you, maybe I'm, maybe I'm just blissfully happy, but I can't think of a single significant mistake that I made at all.

I mean, it, I really, it, it has been an unbelievable career. Unbelievable. And. Sure there are things I'd, I'd regret taking on too. Challenging a case at too earliest stage in my career. Mm-hmm. I'm definitely guilty of that and thinking that maybe sometimes I have more answers to a problem than I. I rightfully should have.

Mm-hmm. And those can bite you. But you know, it's experience just leads you to those types of mature answers and inexperience leads you to immature answers.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how long were you in practice before you bought that 10,000 square foot building? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Oh, I actually bought it before I started, so, I, I, I had made some pretty savvy investments during residency and I saved up a great deal of money.

So, I had no debt. I paid off all my student loans and I had enough money to go in and, and pursue loans. And this was a different time. I mean, gosh forbid a person leaves a residency now with four or $500,000 of debt. I mean, they've got a doctor, doctor at a, at, you know, after their name and that used to buy you, you know, a million-dollar loan just for the handshake and a signature.

Those days are long gone. And it's really an interesting time, which really leads us to the issues of consolidation. For sure.

Catherine Maley, MBA: How did you know that you, were you, so, you knew you were trying to build an empire, like you weren't getting around like you, or were you thinking about renting it out to others? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Did you know you were going to fill that building up? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, well, you know, my mom says things to that I'll quote often, and I know she'll listen to this podcast, so, she'll probably get a little teared in her eye. But when I was a little kid, my, my mom always said he's full of grandiose ideas. We'll see what happens.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Famous last words, huh? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. So, I, I've heard over and over from people and I surveyed as many people as I could find. I went all over the United States, never spared a vacation to, to go to a surgeon and spend time with them. I mean, I missed, I. Almost 10 years of vacation because every vacation was used to advance myself and my career for my patient's benefit.

So, I I had a lot of information, a lot of experts out there, very famous people. I could just run-down a, a lengthy list. And they, the con the con consensus was a few things. No matter how big the space you get, you'll fill it. Just watch, it'll happen. And so, I took that to heart and came to Oklahoma where things were a little bit cheaper and started day one at, with 10,000 square feet.

And, and now we have another facility in Jacksonville, Florida that's going to arrival at, so.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Wow. And then when did you start adding other surgeons? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Hmm. Well, I was in practice for three years before I took our first fellow, and so, I would. Count that as my first experiment with having another full-time doctor with me.

And that was a great experience. And so, I've had. 15 fellows. Now we have one every six months now. Those fellows are all over the country from Seattle to Scottsdale to Park City and down in Florida. And so, that's been a great journey. I, I would say that is a really nice way to bridge the gap from independent practice to developing physician relation skills.

When you're isolated in a practice, there are some strengths that come from that autonomy, but also some weaknesses that develop and that dictatorial unilateral approach to decision making can be a very challenging problem in, in various social arenas. So, I would attribute that first step of growth to fellowship training and devoting oneself to the education and betterment of someone else is, is a, is a really true altruistic art.

Mm-hmm. So, I would say there, now my first associate was 2007. So, I was in practice four years and took on a gentleman for two years. We knew his pathway was to leave, but we were fortunate to have him for two years, and that gave me another stepping stone towards longer term relationships. And I, I'm still learning to this day.

I don't have all the answers. I. But I will say that there, I think there's three categories of doctors you work with. There's a doctor who's very skilled, very capable, and very good, and is just trying to bridge that gap of independent practice from residency, for example. And they're strong enough and good enough that they're going to try to fight it and do it, do it themselves.

Some of those doctors will see value in associating with another doctor and others will not because they're so, capable and skilled. That's one type of doctor and they take a different approach and a different mentality and a different communication style. The next doctor is a doc. Our doctor is a doctor, is completely on the other end of the spectrum, and that's a doctor who doesn't want to own anything, doesn't want to run anything, and just wants to show up.

And they literally don't want to manage. Even the thought of management is, is just makes them almost sick to their stomach. And those doctors are really interesting because you can almost plug and play. You can have a system do consultations, plug in the doctor, minimize their interaction. Quite honestly, because often they're not the most robust in their skillset and succeed very well because if they show up and are happy to do two or three surgeries a day, I mean, they're thrilled to go home.

And maybe that, that term that sometimes confuses me work-life balance, which I don't have. That, that's the third type of doctor. The intermediate doctor is the doctor that I really strive for. But I'll take anybody, I mean, I, I'm not going to say that we have a specific type of doctor that we're looking for because honestly, all of them can work well.

It just. Listening to them, understanding them and respecting their skillset and their what they're really looking for in their lives. So, that intermediate doctor is a doctor that wants their input heard. They want to be respected. They want to add to the quality of the practice or the contribution factor they want to contribute.

Yet they don't want to overly be involved with the bills. And negotiating contracts with anesthesia departments, it's just not what they want to do. So, those are the three kinds of broad-based categories of doctors I deal with, and all of them can be appreciated and all of them fit into a system. You just have to respect their differences.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And, acknowledge them. Because I think a lot of doctors aren't aware of which box, they fit in. Mm-hmm. Because some of the doctors actually, some of the I'll just generally speaking, yeah. The younger patients don't, or the younger doctors don't know anything about business and they've never had to come up with patients in a marketing plan and paying bills and being at risk. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Yeah. So, they come on a little strong and not be naively, you know, and then there's the older doctor who might be burned out. But, but not willing to relinquish control so, that there's nothing easy about that. I'm sure you take your time, you know vetting these people, right? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. It, it's, it's really interesting.

It, it's a, it has to be thought of, in my opinion much more fragile than a marriage. I know there's analogies often made, but. I mean, it's pretty easy to get out of a business situation, and it's, it's much more financially challenging to exit a marriage having been there. So, I, I, I would say that identifying egos who needs to be praised?

What, you know, what are their love languages? I mean, it's truly a tort of force of intellectual psychological assessment and appreciation on both sides. I mean, we have to respect each other. We have to show that respect, but constructively, we have to give guidance. I mean, it's really awesome. I mean, talk about fulfilling.

I mean, this type of, of business relationship is just amazing.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, I've seen some practices that are a true democracy. Mm-hmm. They meet, but they meet every week. They have the same values. They have honed this. Mm-hmm. I know a practice who has kind of like a coach and the coach keeps everyone on task. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Mm-hmm. Just in case things, they don't want any big problems that are factoring and they're not talking to each other, so, they really take it seriously. And, and they have a beautiful, profitable practice. Mm-hmm. And then others are just a dictatorship. They just, they. They hire some surgeons and they say, I'm running the show. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

You just show up and, and appreciate that, and that's it. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Right. Right. Yeah. And, and yet there is room for all. I mean, there's enough to go around. Mm-hmm. And the greediness and, and the you know, to, to think that you're the only one to do it. The only way is just foolish.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I've been doing this for a long time and I've never heard the same story twice. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

You know, there's no one way to do this. That is for sure. I'm just loving all the creativity that is coming about, that's evolving and that's why we're talking about this. But yeah, if I'm not mistaken though, when I was listening to you speak, do you have 39 staff people? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Let's see this week. And that's a, that's a, a laugh, but also the truth.

It does vary quite a bit. We have. We have one person two people kind of exiting. We have three coming on. That's normal. That's a normal week. So, we have a very open-door policy. I say the same thing every year at a Christmas party. I say, listen guys, whenever you want to leave, it's perfectly fine with us.

Don't ever feel like you got to be the last one in the, in the building. I just thank you for coming. Thank you for being a part of our employment. And just have a good time and leave whenever you feel darn good and ready. Don't, don't feel bad. And I kind of keep that same philosophy in the office. We tell people when they're hired, listen, we're, we're here in this life for a certain amount of time.

You may be here for a long time; you might be here a very short time. Don't ever feel bad about it. Always address things up with honesty and forthrightness. And if things aren't going well or you're seeing things differently, we need to hear about it. Let's just be open about this. Immature adults. And so, we do have a fair amount of turnover in our office, which is both financially challenging and functionally challenging.

So, we've chosen kind of a redundancy and an overlap in employment that allows kind of a rotational cycle of employees. So, I have a set of employees that I work with primarily. Of course, I like to call them "The A-Team", but. They're really just a group that, that has piled around with me, knows my habits, knows my mannerisms, and we work really well together.

So, we work together three days a week. We, we typically do 12 hours a day, three days a week. And we start at six 30 and yeah, usually finish around 7 30, 8 o'clock at night and no, I take no lunch. So, talking about work-life balance. Yeah. I'm not the model of that. I love my work, love my work. I make no excuses about it.

I am no balance whatsoever. Work, work, work. Because I love work and I figure I want to work. And if I die at work, that's okay with me.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Good attitude. Do you, hopefully you give them lunch, right? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yes, yes. As what's required. But I, it's so, funny because you know, people of personality types, they tend to congregate.

We like to hang around with each other and you know, we have a certain type of humor and we have a certain type of music we listen to. And it tends to be that these young ladies work their living butts off. Cause they love that I do. Nice. So, we're all, it's like a bunch of pigs and mud. I mean, we all love rolling around in it.

So, they take very little launch, often don't take lunch, they'll snack on something. They kind of mop about it, but they also are kind of proud about it and mm-hmm. So, my little set team is they're amazing and I'm very happy for, but we're just one small part of the big group. We have a, we have a big administrative group.

We have a very big IT division, which. I mean, I, I could just talk for hours about just our 13 different IT groups that we work with. It's craziness.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And are you planning, do you go for patients all over Oklahoma? All over the nation? All over the world? Well, where, where are you going with that? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Where are you? I mean, are all these, like the, those breast dogs, was he getting all those just in Oklahoma City? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. The so, the, my predecessor, the person I purchased the practice from was, was a, a, a very unique individual. He decided to basically do the Walmart service, so, he did, it was $2,800 cash breast augs saline only, cash only.

And he did four a day, five days a week. So, that's not a bad business model. No, no. He did very well financially. Mm-hmm. You know, there, there were some unscrupulous issues and there were some, some financial misappropriations that occurred.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, the cats only probably was a hint there. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Anyway, but we don't run our, our business like that. So, our, our business is, you know, absolutely to a t run properly. And, and so. What is our recruitment? Honestly, we try to focus on the central Midcentral United States. We do get patients, word of mouth, friends, et cetera, that come from all over the country.

We have a very large military presence here in Oklahoma, so, we have a lot of people that relocate to Japan, Germany, Italy those are the big ones, and all over the United States on a different military basis. So, that has been a big area of contribution to the practice success. But really, I, I think it's been 21 years of, of tremendous service and being available to the patients.

I, so, 21 years ago I made my own website. Mm-hmm. I did it over Thanksgiving. Weekend it cost me 25 cents. Nice. And I started something I'd never heard of and I did, made an online form entry and completely, there was no HIPAA and so, they just sent me pictures. And so, I was getting, you know, pictures of people, body parts from all over the country all the time.

And I was inundated. So, I had never heard of anybody ever doing this before. And you know, of course things have advanced to all the encryption and HIPAA policies and now almost everybody has an online form entry system. Mm-hmm. But you know, 21 years ago it was unheard of. I certainly never heard of it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, that was a big deal 21 years ago. Good for you. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Oh yeah, we were doing 20, 25 cases a month purely from, without ever visiting with a patient. The patient would come in from out of town, we'd see him the day before, we'd do the consultation, then we'd do the surgery the next day. So, yeah, it was just I have to say that that concept came from a, another doctor who I met in Connecticut, and he was doing that for wisdom teeth removal.

And just inundated. And I thought, hell, why not try that in our business? And sure enough, it was a, a tremendous boost.

Catherine Maley, MBA: That's how I've grown my own business. I always looked at all the other industries and I said, how can I adapt that to our industry here? And it's all y all you have to do is be a little creative and say, how could we do that here? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

And yeah. Now you also have an online store, a skincare line. You have your own skincare line with an online store where they can shop. I'm always curious about that. Is it a good profit center? Is it a pain in the neck? Who's doing the fulfillment? You know, I never, I, I'm not a fan, but, but does it work? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: I mean, yeah. Well, first of all, I, I think you have to have a passion for whatever element of the practice your endeavor might be. So, for me, I'm a surgeon. I do surgery morning, noon, and night. I hire people that have passions for things that I don't have a passion for. So, I have an aesthetician that does all the aesthetic services.

I have two nurse practitioners. That primarily do non-surgical things and supervise my clinics. I have a skincare person that deals with most of the retail services. Is it a profit center? Sure. It makes a profit. You know, I mean, it's probably 50% margins on everything we sell, but, you know, as far as a comparative, I mean, just to use real numbers and I hope that's okay.

I'm always very transparent about, about the practice. You know, selling $10,000 a month of skincare products is, you know, that's $5,000 a profit. That's pretty darn good for buying hamburgers and shoes for your kids.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I'm okay with that. As long as you don't lose focus on the big-ticket items. I find that the vendors or sta like estheticians take it very seriously, but I just, I watch the balance of how many are, how much of your resources are going into that when it becomes only one or 2% of your overall revenues good. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

That money have been made. Easier or elsewhere, or that, that's my only comment there. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: You have. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very, it's a very good point. And you know, some of the consulting services will focus on the quote, the, the money left on the table, right? Yes. That's the common statement. Well, you're leaving money on the table, right?

I mean, that's a term that I just want to choke people out for. Because you're absolutely right. If you have no passion for it, if you have no business doing it, please don't do it. Yeah, you're going to waste energy, time, frustration, managerial nightmares, legal liability. I mean, I could go on and on. If you are really good at something, I think you should do it all the time.

Because you're going to make much more money at it. You're going to enjoy your life. And I don't worry one bit about my skincare related services, because I've got a young lady who loves it. So, there you have, yeah.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I mean, I practices try to train everyone on how to sell skincare and I just think I don't get that. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

I just, I think there's a better use of your time. Regarding, you're doing a lot of non-cervical as well. You have a full-blown med spa, right? Because isn't your, is your philosophy more patient for life or one and done? Or where are you at with that? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. God, you know, so, right now I, my practice and I as 90 plus, 90% of the overall surgical volume, I do about 2,240 procedures a year.

So, it's almost mind boggling. But I did surgery. Yeah. And so, I, my focus is all there. So, but what would be ideal? If I were to step back and walk into this office as a businessman, which I like to do mentally. I would look at the colors, I would look at the smells. I would look at how I'm greeted. I would see what, what the door presentation is.

I would want to hear the music on the speakers and you know, is there a TV on and what's playing on it and what's being presented. Are there menus of services? What are the services that this offers mm-hmm. That this office. Offers, how is it displayed? Is it displayed on the wall? Is it displayed electronically?

All of these things that would go through my mind if I walk to the office. And it's interesting because even though I, I suppose I'm in the position of c e o, I don't fulfill all of those. Things that I've just told you, there's always room for improvement. There's, and that's undyingly interesting to me, that there's always room for a person's improvement and the practice improvement.

Now, if I were to say in a more ideal situation for, so, I do about 90 major faceless and facial restorations a year in, if I could ideally, Play out for you. What I'd like to have, I'd like to have an introduction. I'd like to have a credentialing period. I'd like to discuss their goals. I'd like to hear from them for 10 or 15 minutes.

I'd like to a, evaluate them and like to give recommendations based on their goals. Now a quote is rendered, but I'd also like them to meet with an aesthetician because as part of the comprehensive care of this patient is not only. Pre-operative preparation for it in many cases, like laser skin reserving, but the post-operative maintenance, it, it is a really important, integral part of, of ideal patient care.

So, it's not just a surgeon comes in, cuts, walks out of the room and never sees the patient again. That would be the, the most cur method of maybe managing the patient. But really ideally that's what I'd like to have. Do I fulfill that each and every day? No, I don't. I, I think if I were to walk in as a consultant, I would say, boy, you really need to kind of systematize that process each and every day to have that integration that I think is more ideal.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, as a, coming from a perspective of the cosmetic patient, once they've invested in themselves on one body part, they will move on to another body part. And especially if you help them with that. So, I think you, you, you have a patient there for life psychologically, you know? Yes. Once you get that bug to look good or feel good and all of that. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Yeah, usually it's not a one-time thing for the patients and nor should it be for the practice, you know? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. The loyalty of patients within the cosmetic surgical field has been well documented. I mean, the average patient is like five procedures over a lifetime. If you can maintain them for a lifetime.

I wish only at five. Yeah, that's, yeah. Way over that. If you look at you know, lifetime income from that, you know, our average price point per procedure is just about $11,400. And so, I mean, that's not something we should shy away from. And we also know that the cost of acquisition of new clients is much more expensive than the preexisting ones.

So, it just, in every way it makes sense to establish and maintain an ideal relationship. But it really starts from. From the moment you meet them, being very direct, very honest, very, very open, and also expressing limitations. Just being a human. I mean, sometimes patients forget that just because you went to school for a long time, you don't have all the answers.

And reminding them that, that humbly, I think, is really important. Have you noticed a

Catherine Maley, MBA: change in cosmetic patients from even, I guess maybe pre-social media to now or pre-internet to now? Like, how do you see them now? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Hmm. Well, I, I, I'd say I'm a little bit biased by my current position in maturity of practice.

Probably 55, 60% of my patients, maybe even slightly higher are previous patients. Nice. So, that's, that's advises me because they already know me. They already trust me. They, you know, their daughter, their aunt, and their grandma came. And so, that's a, that's a no-brainer. You should seal that deal. That should be pretty easy.

It's the new clients, the new acquisitions that are, are Our, our have changed, evolved quite a bit of course during free money time and low interest rates. And, and COVID was, you know, the heyday for cosmetic surgery. I, I've rarely met a practice that didn't show a significant increase because of time available for recovery, but also Liquidity was very high.

Yep. And so, that period is, is certainly changing right now. And we see, seen a macroeconomic tightening throughout the country and all the practices that I deal with. And, you know, you, but it, it's a want and not a need. And thank goodness for that because having weathered housing crisis 2001 bombings there's a, you know, little dips that you take, but.

People want what they want and they'll put off their needs. They will not put off their wants too long. Mm-hmm.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I agree. So, I want to switch gears a little bit because Sure. You've grown this incredible empire. And then I want to talk about the talk that you gave about the future of cosmetic and plastic surgery and the consolidation. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

So, can you go ahead and, and can you just like a brief talk of what your thought was? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Sure. Well, thank, thank you for, for listening to the talk. I appreciate it. Okay, so, five years ago. I sat down and I thought, you know, I'm not getting any younger. My practice has become a, a behemoth and it would be very difficult to sell the practice to an individual for what it's valued or what I'm told its value is I.

And so, I was really struggling with that. So, I thought, well, maybe I could fractionate it, break it down to shares, and maybe five doctors could split it up, and that would bring me some revenue towards an exit. But honestly, it still wasn't anywhere near what the actual cash flow and ongoing value of the practice was.

So, I got really frustrated with that and I, I can I Spoken, met with a lot of people from many different industries, auto industries tech industries all over as many people as would listen to me. And so, my, my grandma always said, if you want to want to learn something, just call. And so, I called CEOs from every website I could find.

It's amazing how many of them were interested to spend just five minutes with me and tell me about you know, it was like I was a kid in, in high school asking on a school project. And so, I learned and learned and learned, and I realized that where the value in the future of our field, in my opinion, is in reducing redundancy.

That was really the central theme. If you think about every garage, you drive by in the United States and it's open in the summer, you'd see a weed whacker and a lawnmower and a trimmer, and gosh forbid they're sitting there like 98% of the time not doing anything. What a waste of money when one community could very well buy a set of lawn, a lawnmower, a tremor, and rotate it throughout the community.

Catherine Maley, MBA: There you go. Perfect. That's a great idea. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. I think of it that way and. Yeah. And in our business, that's exactly what we do. Almost every small boutique type practice has an office manager, maybe a person in charge of, so, social media, front desk girl, and an accountant. And, you know, maybe that's the size that they're, they're comfortable with.

But my practice had grown so, big that I had, I have, you know, five departments. I've got department heads in each department and ins, subordinates within those departments. And we have department meetings and, you know, it's all very corporatized and just everything was just going that way. So, the more information I got, the more I realized that I, I could very.

Quite honestly, I could very easily just go to a private equity consolidated group and just sell my practice. But what I did was I looked at all the available options and there were very few, and still are, very few actually that have gotten to a point of consolidation. And I realized there were a few significant weaknesses and I spent, I.

Almost 2000 hours. That's no exaggeration by the way. 2000 hours. I documented all of it. I, during residency, I was very obsessive, so, I documented every hour I ever did during residency. And so, I have that all written down. So, I figured, you know, I've got to keep this up. So, I documented all the time, I spent on the phone, at conferences, at meetings with private equity groups.

And I learned a great deal and what I learned was the private equity groups often contributing some form of financing. So, they consistently wanted to take. Plastic elective surgery and Shoe Hornet into the models that they knew. And those models were gastroenterology, ophthalmology, dermatology, insurance-based accounts receivable.

Their due diligence process was very foreign into a cash-based system. They didn't even understand that we were prepaid for surgery, you know, a month in advance. It was just, Whoa. Where's your accounts receivable?

Catherine Maley, MBA: And there's no accounts receivable. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. None ever. So, I had, I was really like walking into these people that I felt I was the ignorant one, but they had absolutely no understanding of what I was talking about.

So, it was actually, I saw that as a great opportunity to, I mean, I always love somebody who's willing to listen to me, so, I had a great. Time kind of going through so, many different groups, speaking to different levels, all the way up to CEOs of these private equity companies, and just hearing what was pleasing to them and what they were scared of.

Hmm. What. Oh my gosh. I mean, the list could be very long. Key operator dependency issues. You know, if there's only one doctor in a practice, how can you show me on a, on a cash-based system that your 90 day and one 20-day revenues are going to be there when I'm used to waiting for accounts receivable for 120 days?

So, they, they want security.

Catherine Maley, MBA: You know, and this, and they want predictable revenues and how you say that in our industry, you know? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: That's right. And all you can do is say, well, I've been in businesses 21 years and it's gone pretty well. Yeah, right. So, I just kept on telling them that, listen, look at the books, look at the data, look at the, the, the cash system is, you know, a 40 to 60% profit margin.

You guys are arguing over 13 to 17% in dentistry. I mean, it makes no sense to me at all that you're wasting all this time with dentistry when you've got a cash cow right down the street. I mean it just over and over again. And then one day I got a call back from one of the CEOs and I was in the Atlanta airport at the time, returning from a, a meeting with another private equity group, and he said, Erik, We like what you've been saying, we've been really talking about it, and we want to meet with you and your group.

So, that was, I mean, I, I almost cried. I've been telling you my hair stood up in my arms. I was like, yes. And finally, it took me four years to hear that type of response that I was hoping for. And, you know, speed ahead and the tides are turning. There's certainly a tipping point. Of familiarity, understanding, and acceptance.

And the world of cosmetic elected plastic surgery is filled with people that make a great deal of money compared to the average person, and they're very autonomous. And this is a tide that's going to take a long time. But that's okay. The, we're, we're in this for the long haul. This is a 10-year project.

This is not a one-year project. This is a 10-year project, and I really came up with that idea with a lot of my buddies in construction. And when they look at a thousand-acre plot, they're not thinking about, you know, one year, they're thinking about 10 years in building schools, community parks restaurants, everything.

That's a part of urban development. And I just thought that's, that's the kind of approach I want to have in this industry is a 10-year plan. I. So, really that led me to some partners with some colleagues I've known for 25 plus years. All of them that are surgeons. Were business people. Yeah. These are all other surgeons that have been extremely, you'd know all their names if I mentioned them, but I won't mention them because they didn't give me an approval to do so, but they're very well-known people that you would know immediately.

And people that after conversations, just like we're having, came to the realization that the future is very strong when you consolidate. Mm-hmm. The strength, and this really comes from the relationship I've had with my wife and my. Fellows and my partners are that we are always stronger together than you are separately.

Always, always. And once people get that mentality shift accepted, they go, ah, I get it. So, we can have one accountant for the entire system. That's one cost. We have one c e o, one procurement expert, one person that's saving us 20% on. Allergan or Galderma just 20% right there of negotiating power. When you've got a 50 million a year cash flow company and you sign exclusive contracts, you're going to get tremendous buying power, strength, and it, it's just over and over again.

I could go on and on, but I, I hope that's exciting for the viewership.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And are you consolidating the HR, the hiring, the managing? Because I find absolutely the surgeons, the number one challenges staff. Mm-hmm. They, they are. So, especially after post covid, they're so, done with staff. Like they're, yeah. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

You know, is, does it include that? Because I can see a lot of practices thinking, oh my God, if I could get this off my plate and get back to doing what I like to do, which is surgery. Yeah. I'd be a happy clam right now. And I'm, and they're, I'm not. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, yeah, that's exactly the type of person that we're looking for.

And you know, to kind of make this segue a little bit the goal is to have 50 practices that are like-minded, utilizing a centralized call center, centralized HR, centralized procurement. The buying power of, you know, 150 million a year company is just puts you into a totally different league, right?

We want doctors to maintain autonomy if they want to. So, we offer a number of different avenues to try to become partners, and it has to be a partnership. There are people that just want an exit plan and we provide that exit plan. There are people that want administrative roles and responsibilities.

There are people that want equity in a growing and very rapidly growing corporation that pays dividends. And so, we have avenues for all those different types of people, and we have avenues for people that just want to show up and work. I have a couple people right now that, so, we're constantly interviewing.

We're constantly evaluating practices, and you always learn something from that. Those, those communications.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Are you involving private equity or is this a physician led consolidation? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Actually, the answer is yes and yes. Okay. Ultimately in order to fund the growth if you study almost every other industry, there's a reason that loans exist.

Yes. I mean, why, why not just put it on your shoulders? Well, because honestly, there's a point of growth that you need acceleration and you need to get through a, a bridge, a gap that costs money. And it's, it can be a pretty substantial amount. So, the initial phase of development is a minority partnership with private equity where we maintain 80 plus percent of ownership and all decision-making rights exclusive of a few constraints with utilization of funds.

That are appropriate to any financial term, to any company. And but it is a board run by through and about physicians.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, the board is made up of decision-making powers by physicians and the business people are also on that board? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yes. They have one seat at the board, at the table. They do have some.

Again, you know, lots of details, but ultimately decision-making powers of specific hiring roles. Veto powers do exist, but they're extremely limited due to the minority position.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. I'm doing, it's a miracle though. I've worked with, I mean, when I get in when there are more than three surgeons in a room, we have a tough time making a decision, so, Yeah. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

You know. Good, good for you, because I can't imagine all of them coming. How does that work? Can you get a decision made? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I think, again, it all goes back to what I tried to form formally kind of describe, you have to have this mental shift. It's not about me anymore. Yeah. It's about the entity.

It's about growth. It's about the quality of consistency of quality of care. Mm. Mm-hmm. And I think those words play very strongly amongst even egocentric physicians. Mm-hmm. So, but getting that shift from me, me, me, Now I have a two-year-old and he's constantly saying, mine, mine, mine. And I just, I got to take a video of it because it reminds me so, much of the first time I meet with a doctor who's got been a very successful doctor in there.

They've got these barriers that are so, visible. I mean, you can just palpate and trying to get through that to, to a level of, of greater understanding that this is a societal shift. Hmm. You can either sit back and wait, or you can be a part of it. If you join early, you're going to be in a position of more directorial involvement, right?

You're going to have a higher equity value. And what happens if you look at the math and its pretty simple stuff. I'm, I'm the, not the smartest guy in the world, but I do work hard. So, if you look at the math, it's really simple stuff. When you add practices to a group, it becomes stronger. When you exit, meaning when you sell it to a larger fish.

So, a small fish is eaten by a bigger fish, and that's the principle at hand here, is that a private equity group comes along and says, this is a prosperous company. They're running very efficiently. They do good business. I want to buy them now before they get too big and too expensive. And then there's an equity transition.

And then that doctor can consider, do I want to cash in my equity or do I want to stay on for the next? Bigger fish that comes along and it's just a pretty simple process, but you have to buy into it mentally. You have to understand that ultimately, it's not about the individual practice anymore. It's about the opportunity to take best practices from each location and formulate the best practice.

Mm-hmm. Because I can tell you, after spending so, many years and so, much time with all these other practices, there are some things that fall way outside the standard of care. And it's readily available, and I'm very research oriented. I, I'm constantly studying and I don't really do much else except fly airplanes.

So, for me I, I love trying to find out, you know, what is the enhanced recovery after surgery, what is the fastest way to get a patient home? What is the most efficient way? What is the safest way to reduce DBTs and blood clot formation and complications after surgery? That is just thrilling to me, and having that energy and enthusiasm and being able to transfer to multiple practices.

I mean, I, I mean, I don't know what to say. This is the greatest life ever. Okay. I would love to have that. So, when I can find people with similar, like-minded ideas, then we, we blend pretty well. And the decision making is always about what's best for the patient because the financial returns will come, they will come as a result of running the business properly, running it ethically, morally, keeping track of every dime appropriately and, and always best practice for the patient.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, because this is a business and marketing podcast, I have to ask about the marketing. Yeah, sure. Is the branding now a big name, like your name is Olympus Cosmetic Surgery, is it now like Dr. Smith Plastic Surgery by Olympus? Mm-hmm. Or how does that work? And then who does, who does the patient attraction now? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Does everyone have a big ad budget and the, the front office handles all the, how does that work out the advertisement? How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah. Well, it, it's always evolving. The current situation is that all the practices are independent, but we're consolidating our services. Gotcha. Now, I, I do view in that 10-year time plan that I've told you that there will be a central theme, a central title AEN, a central logo.

We have our subgroup; we have our website related to Olympus cosmetic surgery group. Brett's really in the stages. For information for future acquisitions or partners to find us. So, it's not a centralized advertising platform. It will be there's no question that's inevitable, but right now, in each individual location, we're trying to find the most successful practices, and they're successful for a reason.

Mm-hmm. Because they've proven their methods successful in their region. So, if they're dominating, we don't want to rock the boat and dislodge that, that dominance from that area, just because we think we know better.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. Yeah. Okay, that's a good idea. You know what, I want to wrap it up. Now. I normally, I'm afraid to ask, you know, because I like, I usually like to ask tell us something we don't know about you. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

So, if you can't say that you fly planes, because we already know that. What, what's another one? Cause I'm, you are a very interesting person. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Well, I don't know. I appreciate that. Well, gosh. I would say if I were to, to say the thing that, that you know, I, I, I say it all the time. I'm not, not the smartest guy in the world, but I do work my ass off, and I mean that at a much deeper level than I'm, I'm, I'm admitting I, I think that the.

Interest and the passion that I have for studying humanity is, is unparalleled. I absolutely love every moment of this life, and when I go, it'll be just fine with me because I've lived a full and complete one. But just the, the interactions between highly intelligent people, investment bankers, a private equity group, leaders, I mean, These people, if I were a little kid and somebody said, someday you're going to be hanging out with all these people that went to the best schools in the country, and were top of their class in every way, and you're hanging out with them and you're doing pretty well.

I'd say no way. You know, so, it just, the, the passion has is there for me. And I, I would just say if, if I could surround myself with people with equal or similar passion as I know you have in your field. I mean, gosh, I've, I've known you for like 25 years I think so, yeah.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I needed to be in this field to hang in there.

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you have to have that undying, never say die, never quit. Passion that is, is, is, is palpable. So, other know, others know it and, and I somehow have been blessed with that gift. So, thank you for allowing me to say that.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Congratulations, and thank you for your father for being an orthodontist. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

I had braces a million years ago, and I'm so, grateful it was a life changer. Looking back now, if I hadn't had braces. Oh my gosh. That would be a different story, you know? Yeah. So, Dr. Nuveen, how can people get ahold of you? I'm sure there's plenty of surgeons who are interested in your business model. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

It's very unique and I, and I find it's very multifaceted. It seems like it, you don't have a, a process in ink right now. It's a multiple flexible fluid process because you're evolving right. How did this affect your understanding about the future of cosmetic surgery?

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. There are some rigid elements that you can't hear from due to the relationships.

Mm-hmm. But we're always learning and we got to have that attitude. I mean, if you look at some of the other groups that have attempted to go down this pathway, they've really had some terrible problems. And, and, and actually it's been a wonderful lesson because you look at what they've done and you're like, well of course that wasn't going to work.

You know, lifestyle lift. I mean, I could go down the road. There's, there's been probably 10. That are examples of just poor business practice or lack of transparency, or a lack of partnering. True partnering, it's an overused term. It's one that you really have to focus on is it's got to be a partnership and people have to see eye to eye in the relationship.

So, yeah, we'll continue to learn and evolve with the people that want to join us. My, my contact is probably best just as I give to my patients each and every day. Gimme a call. Give me an email. My email is fxfaces@yahoo.com. fxfaces@ yahoo.com or call my cell phone. But also, you can Google, you can get me there as well.

My, my telephone number's openly published. It's (405) 550-7522.

Catherine Maley, MBA: All right. Well, it has been a pleasure having you on Beauty and the Biz. I really appreciate it. I'll see you again at a conference coming up. Looks like you're traveling. Everyone's traveling again.

Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD: That's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, yeah, I'll tell you any, anytime if there's another in interesting issue you'd like to discuss. I, I do lots of other things un unrelated to this topic, but other business things with many different startups and techs and stuff, so, I'm always interested.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks so, much.

Everybody that’s going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Nuveen understands the future of cosmetic surgery.

If you’ve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Nuveen, you can reach out to his website at, csaok.com.

A big thanks to Dr. Nuveen for sharing his vision on the future of cosmetic surgery.

And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.

If you’ve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so, you don’t miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.

And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.

The fastest way to success is to model other successful surgeons who have what you want, but you can only see their results, not the path they took to get there.

So, you continue to jump from one thing to another, hoping to find something that will work for you too, but it rarely does. So, try this shortcut instead. It’s guaranteed to move you forward. I compiled my intellectual property to grow cosmetic revenues, everything I’ve gleaned over the years into one playbook of the most successful practices and what they do to win.

Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let’s grow your cosmetic revenue.

-End transcript for “The Future of Cosmetic Surgery — with Erik J. Nuveen, MD, DMD".

#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons 

#thefutureofsurgery #thefutureofcosmeticsurgery #eriknuveedmd #eriknuveendmd #dreriknuveen

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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to convert 25-50% more consultations with the right coordinator.

I’m your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today’s episode is called "Convert 25-50% More Consultations with the Right Coordinator."

A patient coordinator with the right character, mindset and skills is truly a game changer for cosmetic practices..

They can take your practice revenues from “just enough to pay the bills” to a windfall every month because they know how to book cosmetic procedures!

This position cannot be taken lightly. You may think anyone can step in to do the job of a coordinator, but you would be sorely mistaken.

Converting consultations is an art and trained skill. It takes the right strategies, knowledge and then lots of practice to get good at confidently taking a “stranger prospect” to a cash-paying cosmetic patient.

So here are three main attributes that make the biggest difference when you have a great patient coordinator representing you and generating revenues:

The Right Mindset and Attitude

The best coordinators are here to serve – not sell. They have confidence knowing they are providing a valuable service to prospective patients who have a pain point and you are their best solution. They believe in the surgeon(s) they are representing, and they also believe in cosmetic rejuvenation as a gateway to personal self-fulfillment and happiness.

That means they do all they can to help the prospective patient get to a yes and they persevere in the face of resistance. They don’t see resistance as rejection. They see it as an opportunity to offer different perspectives and clear up the confusion on the patient’s side, so the patient actually makes a decision to better themselves.

Excellent People Skills

The right coordinator  has the people skills to make a prospective cosmetic patient comfortable and trusting enough to open up to them and make a decision to have their cosmetic procedure with you.

They stay focused on the patient’s wants, fears, objections so they can artfully address the issues in the patient’s mind that are stopping them from moving forward. They do that by bonding with, listening to and asking questions so the patient feels heard. The patient now opens up more because they trust the patient coordinator has their best interests at heart.

Skilled at Converting

Converting prospective patients to paid cosmetic patients is the #1 skill needed to be a top patient coordinator. This is where the rubber meets the road. This is the difference between an okay coordinator and a converting rock star.

This takes confidence, courage and proven strategies that are practiced and engrained.

The patient is looking to you for guidance and isn’t going to hand it to you–

You have to ask for it in a professional and comfortable way, so the patient says yes.

For example, when the coordinator has presented the options to the prospective patient, they must transition to a strategic question rather than a yes/no question that can trigger resistance.

So instead of asking, “Sarah, did you want to do this?”, you ask, “Sarah, did you want to go with the full Mommy Makeover or start with just the Tummy Tuck?”

When they pick one of the choices given them, the patient is moving forward and you now have a booked surgery!

Now, the inverse of a fantastic coordinator is also important to be able to spot because it can be subtle so watch for these clues telling you  you DON’T have the right coordinator:

• Here’s the big one…
• the wrong coordinator takes zero responsibility for their poor results. They blame everyone and everything EXCEPT themselves.        
• For example, if you’re hearing complaints such as:
  • I’m not getting enough leads
  • These leads are awful
  • They are just price-shopping
  • They don’t have any money

That tells you you have a coordinator who is negative, pessimistic and thinking lack. So, you want to address that before it gets any worse. Either free her to work elsewhere or have her join The Converting Club and let me turn her around and train her to be a converting rock star.

Simply go to www.ConvertConsultations.com, sign her up and she’ll get 24 training videos, along with quizzes that must be passed before moving on to the next module.

She’ll also be required to complete metrics each week about her consults and then we’ll be bi-weekly coaching calls to go over the details of each consult to determine what went right and what else could have been done or said to get to a yes.

It’s the accountability that makes the difference and turns around their mindset and results so please check it out.

Transcript:

Convert 25-50% More Consultations with the Right Coordinator

Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to convert 25-50% more consultations with the right coordinator. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your aesthetic practice — What your patients are saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.

Now today's episode is called Convert 25-50% More Consultations with the Right Coordinator. Now a patient coordinator with the right character mindset and skills is truly a game changer for cosmetic practices because they can take your practice revenues from just enough to pay the bills to a windfall every month because they know how to book cosmetic procedures and keep your schedule filled.

Now, this position cannot be taken lightly, especially if you want to convert 25-50% more consultations with the right coordinator. You may. Anyone can step in to do the job of a coordinator, but you would be sorely mistaken. I see that so often that the coordinator leaves and they just put the receptionist in there and that's just really a disservice to you and the receptionist. So, converting consultations is an art, and it's a trained skill just like anything else.

It takes the right strategies, knowledge, and then lots of practice to get good. Confidently taking a stranger prospect to a cash paying cosmetic patient. So here are three main attributes that make the biggest difference when you have a great patient coordinator representing you and generating your revenues.

So, here's the first one, the right mindset and attitude. The right coordinators that convert 25-50% more consultations are here to serve. Not to sell. They have confidence knowing they're providing a valuable service to your prospective patients who do have a pain point, and you are their best solution. Now these coordinators know that they didn't pull anybody in off the street.

These people literally called you. They have a pain. You have a solution, and that just makes logical sense. So, they believe in you, the surgeon that they're representing, and they also believe in cosmetic rejuvenation as a gateway to personal self-fulfillment and happiness. I mean, quite frankly, a cosmetic coordinator who hasn't had any cosmetic.

I also think that hurts them. You should really be drinking the Kool-Aid and well, if nothing else, maybe they're young or they don't have any big issues, so they haven't had surgery, although it'd be nice if they did, and especially from you. But if they haven't, if they could at least have the empathy of what.

It's like to go through this journey of a cosmetic patient just by watching and listening to your current patients, tell them it's a tough journey for a lot of people. It's full of uncertainty and doubt and fear. So, they need to have that empathy. To help that patient get through this. Now that means they've got to do all they can to help the prospective patient get to a yes, and they persevere in the face of resistance and they will always get a lot of resistance.

We always resist when we have to make big decisions or spend money or have downtime, or there might be pain involved, but they don't see the resistance as reject. They just see it as an opportunity to offer different perspectives and then clear up the confusion on the patient side. So, the patient actually makes a decision to better themselves rather than continue to procrastinate like they have for the last five years with the, they've been thinking about it.

So, here's number two. The right coordinator that can convert 25-50% more consultations has excellent people skills, so they have the people skills to make a prospective cosmetic patient comfortable. In my book, I asked them over and over, why did you choose this practice versus another practice? The overwhelming answer was, I felt more comfortable with this practice, this staff, this surgeon.

That was a really big one and I felt a connection with them as well. Because that's how they trust you enough to open up and especially they need to bond with the coordinator because especially women, we need to tell you our story and how we feel about everything. And you need somebody in the practice like your coordinator to be able to get them to open up and then help them make a decision to have their cosmetic procedure.

So, the right coordinator that can convert 25-50% more consultations stays focused on the patient's needs, fears, objections, and wants, so they can artfully address the issues in the patient's mind that are stopping them from moving forward. Now they do that by bonding with listening to, and then asking very strategic questions so the patient feels heard, and not just that, so the coordinator can hear what's going on in the prospective patient's mind, so they're going to be able to address it.

But that can only happen when the patient opens up because now, they trust the patient coordinator has their best interests. And then here's number three. They've got to be skilled at converting. Converting prospective patients to paid cosmetic patients is the number one skill needed to be a top patient coordinator.

Now, this is really where the rubber meets the road. This is the difference between an okay coordinator and a converting rockstar that can convert 25-50% more consultations. Now this takes confide. Courage and proven strategies that are practiced and ingrained. And I have to tell you, most coordinators do not have this. I shouldn't say most. The ones that I'm training definitely don't have it, and most actually let everybody off the hook.

They don't want to push; they don't want to feel me or aggressive. So, what do they do? They, they present the numbers and then they chicken out. They say, okay, then do you have any other question? Alrighty, then will you just think about that and you gimme a call when you're ready, That is not how a professional handles it, because if you think about it, the patient is looking to your coordinator for guidance and they're not gonna just hand it to them.

They've got to, you've got to ask for it in a professional, in a comfortable way. So, the patient says, Now, here's an example. When the coordinator has presented the options to the prospective patient, they have got to transition to a strategic question rather than a yes, no question that can trigger resistance.

So instead of saying something like so Sarah did you have any other questions? Okay. Or, Sarah, did you want to do this instead? A pro. Ask this, Sarah, did you want to go with the full mommy makeover? Or start with just the tummy talk. Now when the patient picks one of the choices, given them the patient's moving forward and you now have a book surgery.

Now the inverse of a fantastic coordinator is also important to be able to spot because it can be subtle. So, you want to watch for these clues telling you do not have the right coo. Now, here's the big one. The wrong coordinator (who can’t convert 25-50% more consultations) takes zero responsibility for their poor results. They blame everyone and everything else.

Everyone else except for themselves. Now, here's an example. If you are hearing complaints from your coordinator, Where she or he is saying such things like, I'm not getting enough leads. These leads are awful. They're just price shopping. They don't have any money. That tells you have a coordinator who is negative, pessimistic, and thinking lack, so you want to address that before it gets any worse.

Free them to work somewhere else, or please have them join the converting club (so your right coordinator that can convert 25-50% more consultations) and let me turn them around and train them into being a converting rockstar. Now, you simply go to convert consultations.com, sign them up, and they'll get 24 training videos along with quizzes that must be passed before moving on to the next module, because I want them to catch the main thought that I have in that training.

And they'll also be required to complete metrics each week about their consultations, and then we'll be doing biweekly coaching calls to go over the details of each consultation to determine what went right. What else could have been done or said to get to a yes. And that's where I'm listening to their mindset.

They're telling me why people didn't book, and I'm telling them back, here's a different perspective to look at it. Here's some strategies that make a lot more sense. Please try these and that can. Typically turn them around quite easily. And it's also the accountability that makes the biggest difference.

And it turns them around from this meek victim like mindset to an abundant mindset, optimistic. And they really do get a lot more results once they think differently, do differently, and then they be different. That's how we turn them into a converting rockstar.

Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on the how to convert 25-50% more consultations with the right coordinator.

And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.

If you’ve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don’t miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.

And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.

-End transcript for the “Convert 25-50% More Consultations with the Right Coordinator."

#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons 

#convertmoreconsultations #therightcoordinator #convertmore

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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and Park Avenue prestige.

I’m your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today’s episode is called "Park Avenue Prestige — with Thomas P. Sterry, MD."

We all heard its location, location, location, but is that enough to grow a successful practice? 

That’s what Dr. Thomas Sterry, a board-certified plastic surgeon with 20+ years of experience in private practice in Manhattan, NY asked himself when he had to decide if he would rather have a large, 2-floor office near Mt. Sinai or ½ that space on Park Avenue in Manhattan?

My guess was there is so much prestige with being on Park Avenue that can attract patients from all over the world, since the address alone gives him status.

That’s what Dr. Sterry thought that as well, so he set up shop on Park Avenue years ago, at his wife’s request to live and work in the City. 

While he enjoyed some out-of-town patients, he found most of his patients were locals coming in from Brooklyn, Queens, CT, New Jersey, Long Island and Staten Island.

This week’s Beauty and the Biz Podcast is an interview I did with Dr. Sterry where we talked about the moment he quit insurance and went to cosmetic medicine, his advice for residents soon graduating, as well as his love for vintage cars.

There is no right answer to where you should set up shop, but there is the right answer for YOU so choose carefully.

Visit Dr Sterry's Website

Transcript:

Park Avenue Prestige — with Thomas P. Sterry, MD

Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice — What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.

Now, today's guest is Dr. Thomas Sterry and he's a board-certified plastic surgeon with 20 plus years in private practice in Manhattan, New York.

Now, Dr. Sterry also teaches residents as a clinical assistant professor of plastic surgery at Mount Sinai Medical Center in New York City and is involved in several plastic surgeon societies of which he is currently VP of the New York County Medical Society.

Now he's won many patient choice as well as Super Doctor awards throughout the years, and he's a RealSelf top contributor and Hall of Famer. So, I'll ask him more about that and on Park Avenue prestige. Dr. Sterry, thanks so much for joining me at Beauty and the Biz.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Thanks for having me, Catherine. It's a pleasure.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Sure. So, I, I know your background a little bit more before you went to Park Avenue prestige, but you didn't come from a family, a surgeon, so can you just talk on that a little?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Sure. My Well, I didn't expect that to be your first question. Yeah. My, my folks were civil servants. My dad's a fireman. My mom worked in the court system in New York. I was sort of expected to go to college, but not necessarily become, A doctor, the goal was college and that was the goal. So, once I graduated college, it was like, well, not a lot.

I'm not really sure what I want to do. And I always knew I wanted to be a physician, but I didn't think it was possible. I came from a, a very blue-collar neighborhood and You know, it didn't seem realistic because there were these proverbial stories about straight A students who couldn't get into medical school and whatnot.

And, you know, as time went by, I found out that that was truly, really not the truth. That's, that's not how it really goes. You work hard, you can make some progress in your life. We do live in a meritocracy. And so, I ended up going to medical school and I wanted to be a general surgeon and found out that I didn't like trauma as much as I thought I did and.

One thing led to another and I found myself in plastic surgery where I thought I'd be a reconstructive surgeon.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, did you work in the hospital for years before you went out on your own and got Park Avenue prestige?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: I worked for three years at Mount Sinai before employed by the hospital. And eventually it was, it was, it was, it was a long three years and it was time to move on.

Got super frustrated with insurance and management, et cetera, et cetera. And It's not a decision that I ever made. I just kept acclimating towards, well, I have to pay the bills now. Now I've got a couple of kids and I've got bills to pay and I don't have any choice and I can't get stiff by insurance companies anymore.

And next thing I know, I'm a cosmetic surgeon,

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, I mean, you literally went from the hospital to solo practice with Park Avenue prestige.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah. Yeah. So, there's 2003, four, and yeah, I, I just decided I, I can't do this anymore. It became untenable and so I found his face on Park Avenue and we did and moved on.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Because when I met you, you were on Park Avenue and you have since moved, but what possessed you to, to set up shop in the middle of the jungle of New York, in the middle of Manhattan?

I could it be any more competitive in the US or in the world, especially with Park Avenue prestige?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: I mean, honestly, I have a very simple answer. My wife, oh, my wife refused to leave the city. Wow. And, and I, and, and I don't think she. What she was asking of me, because you're right, it was very challenging. It was really hard, and it, you know, what it really comes down to is working more, spending more hours, not at home working evenings and weekends and stressing quite a bit, but you make it happen.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, you went completely cosmetic and got Park Avenue prestige.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Now I am a hundred percent cosmetic. Yes.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Now Park Avenue, when you were there, I, I just was so surprised when I b I know quite a few surgeons on Park Avenue and there have to be what a of them, I mean there're a lot surgeons on Park Avenue and I was so surprised how much you get done in such a small space.

It's very interesting because then you go to Texas and you. Your 2000, is there 20,000 square feet? You know, it's just crazy, the, the amount of space. But, but because of that, does it make you decide, I'm just going to do surgery or just going to do nonsurgical, or I'm only going to bring on a couple people?

Like how does that affect you? Building a practice? With slight, you know, with tight tightness, especially with Park Avenue prestige.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yes. It, it, you're absolutely right. It does, because there's physically no place to put too many employees, number one. The, the overhead is enormous. And so, I've been forced to think about, well, what, what can I act?

Like I mentioned before, at the end of the month, The rent has to be paid at the end of the month. Verizon, the phone bill has to be paid. There's no, there's no negotiation about it. So, you really are forced to, to look at everything really closely. And it, it's a big challenge. There's no, I don't really offer any spa services because I don't have the space for that kind of thing.

It, it has affected some business decisions when you talk about investing in technology, because if I want to buy a gadget that takes. A whole room. I can't give up a room for, you know, an hour at a time for some treatment because you know that that room cost me. We literally have, at one point I had it figured out what it cost me to breathing air for an hour in my office.

It's insane. And, you know, you, you, you just can't, you can't give, you can't give it up that easily. And I noticed. As the years went by, I started to figure out that industry really wants a piece of us. And you know, they love the idea of cosmetic work. But I think you have to be really careful, very picky, and choosy about who you get involved with, with a lot of the industry folks that are out there.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, when you were on Park Avenue, did you have an OR suite in.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: I had the world's smallest or, yes.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Cause I don't remember seeing it when I visited your Park Avenue prestige location.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: It was it was a big problem. I, I was able to get it quite certified. It was, it was a, it was a challenge though, because I, be it, Pardon? No, I'm sorry. In part. Yeah.

No, I could not get it. Quad A certified. Got it. I had to go with joint commission because Quad A actually demands a certain layout and they know that you need some space, God forbid there's an emergency, and you have to give CPR some such thing. Whereas the Joint Commission was much more concerned with process and, and frankly, what I thought it was p.

And it was a very different, I honestly think that the quad a is a, is more appropriate for a surgeon to be certified by than the Joint Commission, at least in private practice. For, for what? What people like me here for.

Catherine Maley, MBA: But now you're on 5th Avenue. Did that give you more space versus Park Avenue?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah. Yeah. I have a better layout.

I have a little more space. I've already outgrown it, but here we are. I don't, I don't really want to move again because I don't think it makes practical sense. But yes, I, I have a, a real operating room. I am currently quality certified. We have everything we need to, to do real surgery here.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha.

And but quite a typically, don't you need that because of the recon? I mean, is there, do, do you have to have that because, well, let me ask you this. Are you watching or hearing more patients wanting local versus general? Less downtime, faster recovery. Are you hearing that? Because I am, the trend is, can I have this done under, as it relates to Park Avenue prestige.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yes, for sure. No question about, I've been hearing that for about 10 years. Yeah. But I'm also, you know, I, one of my, one of the things that I've tried to do is cut out the middle man as much as possible, and I love my colleague’s anesthesia, but they're expensive. And if I can, you know, patients are willing to pay X for a procedure.

So, if you can do it under local, you're better off if you, but it's got to be safe. So, you know, that, that really depends on the, on the procedure that they're wanting. In New York State, one can't give I the anesthesia without being certified by one of the three big entities. So, it's either joint commission quota, or what is it?

Triple A. And so, I, I stuck with Quad a, it making most sense to me. Gotcha.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And then did you add any non-surgical staff or are you doing your own non-surgical? Is it like, how big of a part of that, of your revenues is non-surgical now versus surgical, and how does that tie in with Park Avenue prestige?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Revenue wise, it's still not a big part. I, ironically, I guess I made a small mistake last year.

I hired a nurse who I wanted eventually to take over all my injectables. She ended up not liking the injectables any more than I do, and patients and the patients still want me to do it. So, I don't have a huge injectable practice because frankly, it's, it, I don't find it to be profitable. It's I find it to be a little bit bothersome, to be honest with you.

I know a lot of folks make it work, but in my neck of the woods with the tier that I'm in with the, the, the companies that sell the products, It, it just, you know, hour for hour, I'm better off operating. I like things like Botox. Botox is profitable. It's pretty quick and easy. Some injectables, things like volu in the mid phase, bing bang, boom.

You ring you out, you move on, it's fine. But when folks come in and they want things like lip injections, I find that to be. A money loser. You know, that's a real loss leader. You can do it if you want to, but it's if you think it's going to draw patients for something else, but it's a solid half hour of my time.

Or I suppose if they had a nurse injector hurt time. And invariably you get a handful of people who are unhappy and they want it to solve. Once that is bigger than the other, and you know damn well you put the exact same amount of product on both. It's just, it's that to me, I, I don't want to deal with the headaches.

I don't want to have to spend the time to explain it. It's, it's bothersome. So, I, we service the patients that we have, but we don't look for more of those.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Literally in your situation, if you asked me, I would say the only reason to bring on a nurse injector is if she brought a really good following with her, especially with Park Avenue prestige.

And it's not just injectable but it's Botox and maybe just a really good nurse injector can bring in a good profit center for you but not you getting involved probably.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah, I, I could understand that. I believe you, but that's not what I did. Yeah. Right. And I do love my nurse, the death I hired someone who is terrific at a lot of different things.

She's just not an injector. Right, right, right. She, she took so much off my plates. She runs the, or I don't have to worry about the paperwork in the OR anymore. She's on top of it. Like, like why not write, she's.

Catherine Maley, MBA: No, I completely agree. I'm just saying if you did bring in a nurse injector, it would be one who's a really good marketer.

She knows how to market herself. She knows how to bring in her own clientele, so she becomes her own profit center without you involved. But then again, there's always that fear that she'll walk away, you know, and she'll take them with and you’ll lose some Park Avenue prestige.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah, it happened to many of my friends. Yes.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Right, right. So how many staff do you have with your Park Avenue prestige

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Three I have. I have Alex, who's my practice manager. She's been with me since I worked for the hospital. She came with me when I left. Megan is the nurse and my medical assistant is sh.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. You probably sleep well at night with that kind of overhead, now with Park Avenue prestige. You know, watching some of the others there are two ways to do this.

You either build a kingdom or you build a lifestyle typically. And some surgeons are just built to just build, build, build. And others are built to, no, I want to see my family periodically, so…

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah, Nothing wrong with that. Yeah. Well, it's a mixed bag. You know, I decided, you're right. The way I looked at it was different.

I, I, I know that there's a certain. When I was buying my space, I thought, well, if I could afford to get more space and then rent space out and you know, set up some of the spa services we talked about, that would be great. That's a good business plan. But as I mentioned, my father was a fireman and I did.

And in New York you need at least 50% down. So, if somebody wants a million dollars for an office, you need 500 K to put down in cash. And it was not so easy. You know, there was this little financial crisis we had in the middle of my career. There's been a few stumbling blocks we come across, so.

Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure and as it related to Park Avenue prestige.

Have you ever tried to work with another surgeon or, you know, share expenses or any of that, or any thought of doing that?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: There's always a thought. I kick it around periodically. I'd rather stay friends with people. I, you know, we cover for each other. We look out for one. Somebody needs Botox. We, we, we blend it to each other and whatnot.

But I haven't really seen too many successful stories there. And, and even when the group stays together, at least in my neck of the woods, there’s a lot of strife that goes on in the back, back room. I, I just, I, I sort of like running things this way. As I said, when I worked at the hospital and I had associates, it wasn't as smooth as I thought it would be.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you. I, I also don't know many who have made it work. The ones that have, they have very thick boundaries like you do neck. I do neck down or I'm the dictator. You're this, you know boy, too many cooks in the kitchen, especially in terms of Park Avenue prestige.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: And then at the end of the current contract, there's never going to be a partnership.

And the junior guy gets kicked out and I don't, you know, now that I'm on the other end, right now, I would be the senior guy. I, I don't want to screw over one of my residents. I have no interest or, or a younger guy, woman, man. I, I just, I think it's better. Like I say, we cover for each other. I do my thing.

You do your thing.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have any words of wisdom for, I know you hang around with the residents, you're training them. Are there any suggestions you're giving them or recommendations? How in the world with a, with a newbie entered this marketplace, especially in New York with Park Avenue prestige?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: You know, I, I, I think right now so much has changed, right?

It's only been 20 years only, but so much has changed. I, I really think that when you first finish, your best move is to be employed somehow. And in order to do that, your best move to get a job is probably doing a fellowship that somebody wants to, you need some advanced skills, which is wholly unfair because you're in your mid-thirties by the time you finish plastic surgery training.

But I, I. I think that's probably what I would do. I might, I've gone back to telling them you might want to think about a microsurgery fellowship because then that gets your foot in the door, you'll get privileges. You know, when I finished, my biggest challenge was getting, I couldn't get my hands on an application to a hospital to apply for privileges.

It was a big game. It was, it was unbelievable. You know? Well, you have to meet the chairman first. Okay. One thing. Oh, you know, he's a surgeon. He's very busy. Maybe about six weeks from now. Okay, fine. I'll take that appointment day prior. Get a phone call. Dr. So-and-so can't meet you. He's sorry. He apologizes, but he has emergency surgery.

He can't, well, when can I see me at six weeks from now? And so, it goes. And I was never able to, well, it was very challenging. You had to pull some strings. I, I, I got awfully lucky in a couple of different ways to, to make things happen for myself.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I do know because I also have been around 22 years and I'm watching the, the older guys, you know, starting to think about exiting and that's when they have to start saying, Okay, I like to run my own show, but now I need to figure this out.

And they try to bring someone on and is so difficult bringing the right person on it matches your values and your vision. So, nothing easy about that. So, what would you say is the biggest challenge facing surgeons today? Just with all the changes happening, any suggestions there, especially in the areas of Park Avenue prestige?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Oh, wow. I have several thoughts about that.

I mean, what, the biggest one, like I mentioned, I, I bailed out of insurance work. I'm very lucky to be in that position. But I, I just found that there were too many times, you know, there was always this phenomenon where they pay you less than at a time prior when they deny services, et cetera. But then there was one case in particular that I did a few years ago, and I just said, That's it no more.

Because I took care of a patient who I cared about very much. I knew this guy for a long time. And when I would, when I would do some work for folks who were paraplegic and such, I really felt like a doctor. You know, I was doing it because I wanted to do the right thing. But then again, you do have to be paid.

Big operation weeks of care in the hospital. The insurance company paid me zero. They denied it. Totally. And I said, what do you mean? What, how refile that that must be wrong. I spoke to my biller, no, just do it again. And they said, no, They, they don't think that you did what you said you did. I did a flap.

What are you talking about? So, I compared my note for the same patient from 10 years prior and I haven't dictated all, you know, you get into habits. It was almost the same. No. Why didn't they paid for it before, but not now. I had to have a one to one with a representative, a physician from the insurance company.

And, and I said, what do you mean I didn't do a flap? And look, I, I said, I rotated and I advanced the muscle and filled in the gap and blah, blah, blah, and covered the bone. He says, Doctor, you, you didn't name the blood vessel that supplied the flap, and therefore we don't consider it to be a, a rotated flap.

So, what are you talking? And the end of the story was, I got $0 for that one, and I, I, that's it. I said, no more, never again. And I haven't I feel terrible, but what? Look, once in a while I can still operate on people. I, I do across sometimes. You know, I just, I, I, I'd rather not deal with the hassle. I found that we wasted more time and more of my brain power.

Trying to get the few dollars that they might be willing to pay for something that I should just spend that time marketing and getting other cases that pay me ahead of time and we take care of business.

Catherine Maley, MBA: That's why I only work on the fun side of medicine because as much as we all need the recon side, especially when something goes horribly wrong in our own lives, I don't know who's going to be there to help us

Cause it just, they're, they've made it almost impossible for these surgeons who have spent what years and decades trying to learn this craft and they're not paying them and there's no upside to the darn thing. And I, what a shame, you know. And it's not just the, like the zero reimbursement, it's the time and the negativity and the mind space you have to put into fighting for it.

Then you still don't even get it. So, ah, I stay away from it, for sure. So, let's talk about something more fun and that's marketing, but in your world, how in the world do you differentiate yourself? By the way, I, people used to say, you know what, New York it, it goes both ways. There are a lot of competitors, but there are still like 8 million people that live.

Did. Is that still true or did everyone move to Texas or Florida or something like, so what's your population like in New York, or on Park Avenue prestige?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Well, the catchment area is still the TR tri-state region, so it's still something like 24 million people. Oh, so it's million in the island, in and around the city, I should say. Okay. They come from long and con jersey.

They sometimes fly in from other states. I've had several people fly in from Australia. I remember talking to this one woman on the phone and saying, you realize it was still the telephone by the way. I said, you know, you're literally going to fly past every other plastic surgeon on the planet to get here.

I'm not that good. You can go to somebody, go to la, go to Singapore. It's got to be somebody. And she wanted me to do it, so, okay, fine. You know, I wasn't going to argue with her too much. There's, there's still this when you talk about marketing. Yes. I was looking at a space next to Mount Sinai Hospital.

Mount Sinai is on fifth Avenue, but it's a little north. It's, it's almost Spanish. It's big borders on Spanish Harlem. And there was an office that was becoming available back in 2007 or eight before eight. Right. Before the crash, and I loved it. It would've been a fantastic space, 2100 square feet. Wow.

Upper level, lower-level cetera, condominium, so only 10% down. None of this 50% down. Stuffed. Yeah. And I thought, wow, I could actually afford this one. And it's beautiful. I asked, one of my patients said, if my office wasn't on Park Avenue, if, if I, my, if I was up by the hospital on hundred first Street, would you have come to see me?

She didn't late, she said. I said, But I'm the same guy. Why wouldn't you see me? And Sure. Our answer was very simple. Everybody knows if you want a good plastic surgeon, you have to go to Park Avenue. And I thought to myself, Okay, I can't fight this kind of stupidity. This is what they believe this is. This is just how it is.

So I went, Whoa. So, you know, I've been on park, I've been on fifth. This has not hurt me. I mean, I'm not fit, but I'm a little, I'm looking at the Guggenheim right behind your screen, right. And it, it's worked out fine, but I don't have any special abilities that anybody else in the country doesn't have. We all did basically the same training.

So, I, I do think there's something to be said for location in, in terms of, you know, the rest of the marketing. I've taken my lumps, I've, I've made some mistakes right now. I think social is the way to go. I, I think that's the best bang. Bang for your buck, bang for your time. It's where everybody, its worldly eyes are.

So, we, we spend a little more time there now.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I also checked out your Instagram because quite frankly, the cosmetic patients want to know who you are as a person, human being father, wife, I mean, husband, whatever, dog lover. I like the dog part. But I, so I checked it out and I saw that you did a tour of your office.

I walking out the door of your office and it was like the most beautiful, gorgeous, stay in New York City. And I thought, well, I, we should always look like. That was great. Then it showed the Guggenheim and, and you did like a little tour and the coffee place that's outside on the other side and it was so that was, that was fantastic.

And it's so true. You have to be in the right neighborhood, you know, to, you need the cache. It's very helpful. So, I take it you didn't take that other building over when getting your Park Avenue prestige.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: No, it didn't make that rule. But you know, it's, it's true. Perception is reality. You got to deal with it. You got to roll with.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, you know how many surgeons use Park Avenue? They're not there, but they go there like once a month and they put it on their website. You know, they have a Park Avenue address. And I mean, Real Park Avenue is, does say something to a lot of people, so use what you have to if you have it. So, regarding your demographics, because I did notice Alex, your practice manager, who's been with you forever, and how helpful is that to have somebody who's been there from the beginning?

It's invaluable. Don't ever lose her. The continuity of that.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Priceless. Yeah. It, it is. And she is, you're right, you're right.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And she brings Spanish with her. Has that been helpful to open up your target market with Park Avenue prestige or has that been helpful for you?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: It's been, yes. It's, it's that helpful when you need it. We don't need it every day.

We have taught, she and I have spoken you know, do we want to have a Spanish version of the website? Should I, should I brush up on more of my Spanish? Cause I used to ablo a little bit, but. The truth is that for the last few years we've been busy enough without worrying about it. So, we, we haven't now with this coming recession, if he thinks to start drinking again, but I haven't needed to go down that road too much so far.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So social media, you have like 13,000 followers, so you're doing a good job. You have somebody that works with social media. In today's world, I really think you need a dedicated, at least part-time dedicated person That is their job to focus on the social media and turn you into a star. Like it's their, like, it would be their responsibility to tell you, Okay, today we're doing this.

While they're walking, while you're walking down the hall, let me ask you a question. You know I really think you need that and almost a videographer or somebody who's good at video editing. So, your person like can take the raw footage, you know, of your iPhone or the iPad and then somebody can do something fun with it.

There's so much you can do on social media now that's super entertaining and you don't have to be the entertainment. But they can edit you into being that entertaining part, as it relates to Park Avenue prestige.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Right. I couldn't agree with you more so a couple years ago I made that decision and I hired someone part-time was worth every nickel.

And then some, I mean, you know, you know, somebody told me a long time ago, if you're doing your marketing right, doesn't cost you anything. It makes you money. You got to remember that investment. For sure, for sure. So, I had somebody who was fantastic. I didn't know how good she was. And then she, she went on to graduate school.

And I, I had to hire someone else who I loved very much, and she was terrific. But she wasn't as dynamic. She's now left also, and this moment we're actually kind of looking for the next person. And to the point you're making, I would, I'm looking part-time, full-time, part-time. Fulltime. You could make that a full-time job.

I mean it, I think it would be worth. The budget, but it's got to be the right person. As you mentioned, they have to have some insight. They have to know you and understand your brand and what you want to bring to the table. I had somebody here for a very brief minute and she was, trying to get me to do some, some, some funky things.

She didn't want me to dance on camera or anything because I made that was LA that down immediately. Yeah. Some of the things she wanted to do were just not on brand and I said, I don't think I want to do that. That particular video, I don't like that concept or that music and, you know it didn't work out between us, so we had two different visions of what I, I was going to be willing to offer.

And I also think that you're right, you need, and we're currently now working on mixing in some of the fun video along with before and after. Because my perception, and you correct me if I'm wrong cause you're the marketing person, but I think people want, they want to know that you're relatable.

The proof is in the pudding man. They want to see that before and after, once in a while, and they want to know that you can deliver the goods that they're looking for. See, we're trying to find a better mix to, to offer both.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I think you need both for sure, especially at a location with Park Avenue prestige. They want the before and after photos. You, you want them more than they do, but they want those chi, well, they want the transformational results.

They want to see that tummy that was out of control and now it is tight. You know, they want to see really good results and the patient's stories. If you could get the new person you., if they could get good at finding out that patient's story, that's what we're looking for, because we're looking for somebody like us, like, oh, I had three children.

I used to be so hot, and now my body's shot, you know? And I chose doctor's theory because, and then this is what he did for me and how my life has changed since then. We love the stories, but then we love the pictures because we want to see ourselves in those pictures. Oh, I even tummy like that. And now I can have that, that fantastic.

And then the entertaining part that is becoming because of where we're all heading in the world, apparently everything has to be fun. Now, I didn't come from that world, I came from the world of work hard, hard labor, and That's how you succeed. But apparently, and you did too, the blue-collar kind of mentality.

And nowadays it's not like that and people want to be so entertained. So, you've got to figure out that balance of how much do you want to share with them. That's another thing, like you're a limited on the family part, but how do you feel about sharing the family with the kids, with the hobbies you know, your vacations where you know what you did this weekend.

Are you comfortable with. Yeah,

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: I'm still comfortable with most of that. I, I, I don't mind too much of that. And so far, my family hasn't objected either, cause some people are not comfortable being on camera. But I, I think that the big challenge now, as you mentioned before about the patient stories, you know, Tim Cook is killing me.

I'm a big, I'm a big Apple guy. I'm, I'm looking at you right now on a love his products, but he's got a point about privacy and he's made everybody much more aware. Three or four years ago, it was, it was so much easier to get folks to, to allow me to share their story or their, their before and after.

Look, I'll, I'll, I'll either cover your eyes, I'll crop out the top of your face or all this or that. And nowadays boy, it's tough. Folks are very private. They, they're very insecure about having their identity out.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Now I, I'm going to question some of that because there are also that, that whole other, it's a 50/50 thing.

There are others who can't wait to put themselves out there with Park Avenue prestige. They're such narcissists, and they just love sharing everything. So, you just need to find them, you know? And I would just keep asking everybody until the right, you know, some of them say yes.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Well, we do, of course. But I guess the point I'm trying to make is I'm finding a trend, at least in my neighborhood, where there's, there there's more interest in privacy than there used to be.

And they'll be at that, you know, it used to be a lot easier for me to, to convince patients to let us use their photos. Then it is right now. Right.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Actually, I attended a seminar on this and there's a big war between Google, Facebook, and Apple and Apple because Apple literally runs the whole show with the darn mobile phone.

Even though Google owns the world, Apple has a very big. Control button on top of things. And all of us got to pick that question. You know, they had to put in that question, do you iPhone, do you want us to share all your information with third party vendors? Like the, like the question was, of course we don't, you know, like 90% of people said no, but yes, the privacy thing, and you know what?

I heard the, the reason they're doing that, Apple is going to get into the advertising. That's what I heard. And so, they need to control that now so they can now have this audience that they're not sharing with others and then they can start, start advertising, charging for advertising.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: I don’t know, that would be an interesting paradigm shift for Apple, but yeah, well look, we'll see.

But yeah, I, I believe that Tim Cook has a lot to do with meta stop dropping quite a bit the last year, cause of some of the constraints you've put on.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, that's why I, I hope everybody embraces social media because another thing that's happening out there, even if you paid to get on the first page of Google, nowadays with search rankings, they're not going to let you there.

There's so, there's only so much room left unless you do the pay per click or Google AdWords, which are there's, there's a lot of big challenge to that, but they don't even have to go to your website anymore. Google's going to great lengths to make sure they don't leave the homepage. Oh, you want to know how much a tummy tech.

Oh, you want to know what the downtime is? Oh, do you want like, oh, you want to know you know, all, everything you wanted to know about it. Tummy tuck. You don't even have to the first page, even if realized, wait a second, I went, I'm meant to go find Siri's trying to, and I, gosh, it's.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

Catherine Maley, MBA: That's true. Yeah. So how do you feel about patient retention at your Park Avenue prestige location? Because I'm focused more on that than ever. You've been around for 20 years, you have a patient list that knows, likes, and trusts you. Do you spend any time, effort, and money on them versus looking for new stranger patients?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: You're, I'm embarrassed to tell you, we don't do very.

We don't, and, and I know it's in your book, and I actually have purchased some of your, your other tools to make sure that that happens with email campaigns and such. And we've not been very good about it, but, well, look, you know what, the faucet was wide open since the pandemic. I mean, we, it was so easy.

There were patients falling out of the sky. We didn't have to make any. To, to bring anyone in. Things are about to change. They're, they're changing already right now. And I can see that coming our way very quickly. Just to give you an idea, a flavor. In June, we had a four-month waiting list. It's now the end of September, and we don't.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I hear you. I've heard that all over the country and also at your Park Avenue prestige area. And it can, do you know how quickly it happened? That's how quickly it can dry up. And we've all been around for a while. It's like, first of all, did anybody see that surge coming? I didn't. I thought, here we go again. Here we go With the DM recession again, we're all in trouble.

And instead, it was like, people must have plastic surgery, they absolutely must have it and they must have it now. That was crazy.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Yeah. And some of my junior staff, you know, they, they, they didn't understand. So, as you mentioned, Alex and I are together for 20 years and the younger staff didn't understand why, like, why are you guys still working?

What you mean you want to stay late again? Why, why are you going to work on Saturday? Like, how much do you need to get by? And I kept saying, we got to make hay. Well, a sun is shining. Yeah. This would not last forever. Yep. And I kept feeling as though, you know, there's a tiger chasing me and I got to get ahead and.

Finally, the tiger's here. I think, you know, finally, it took a while, took a couple of years, but here we go now we're going to have to deal with it, but we're in a much better position and I trust that all of us are in a better position now than, you know, maybe in, in oh 8, 9, 10, when we all struggled so hard.

Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. So, we're going to wrap it up now. I know I was going to ask you what drives you, but I know you have a lovely wife and three little kids. Actually, they're not so little anymore. How, how old are your.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: My oldest is 18, 16 and 14 on Monday.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh my God, how cute is that? So, is there anything interesting you can tell us about yourself that we don't know that you're willing to share with the world during your transition to getting Park Avenue prestige?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Gosh, I, wow, that comes out of the blue. I'm a about myself. I still, I still like working with my hands, even at home. I am a car buff and I have an old MG that I'm forever tinkering with. Trying to teach my kids how to turn a wrench and some, sometimes they're interested, most times not. But I, I still enjoy working on the old rust bucket.

So, do you drive? Yeah. Yes, I'm a New Yorker. It's true. But I grew up on Long Island, so I drive.

Catherine Maley, MBA: OK. Ae any of the kids going to follow you into medicine?

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: No. No. They, none of them have an interest. They all say, and this is the sad part, they all say, you know, we never see, we never see you. We never say, you growing up, you work so hard.

I don't want to work like that. Why would I do that? And I kind of, and I've said to them sometimes when we're really being serious and I say, look, you know, it's true. I, but I, your mother and I worked our tails off to blaze this trail. All you have to do is go to school and your name is on the door. The place is here.

Just walk in and operate. But so far there's no takers. We'll see how things change if they change as they kids grow. But so far, no.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Well, it has been a pleasure talking to you again about getting some Park Avenue prestige I hope to see you at a meeting someday soon. It looks like the travel's coming back, although it has not been fun to travel.

No, you can't seem to get anywhere where I want to go on time, but whatever. Thank you so much. Thanks. Thanks for your time.

Thomas P. Sterry, MD: Thank you and thanks for all you've done to help me in my practice over the last 20 years. I, I tell all my residents, they've got to read your book. I've bought it for a few of them so they can look it over.

And I love your advice.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Everybody that's going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how Dr. Sterry got Park Avenue prestige.

If you've got any questions or feedback for Dr. Sterry, you could actually reach out to his website at, www.DrSterry.com, www.DrSterry.com.

A big thanks to Dr. Sterry for sharing his journey on moving his practice and attaining Park Avenue prestige.

And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.

If you’ve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don’t miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.

And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.

-End transcript for the “Park Avenue Prestige — with Thomas P. Sterry, MD."

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Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz", where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and the takeaways from the top 5 podcasts of 2021.

I’m your host, Catherine Maley, author of "Your aesthetic practice - What your patients are saying", and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits.

LEARN MORE ➡️ https://bit.ly/3ykNLEa

Takeaways from the Top 5 Podcasts of 2021

Intro

This episode is called Take-a-Ways from the Top 5 Podcasts of 2021

Another year is coming to an end and so is the Beauty and the Biz podcast.

Since I do a weekly podcast, I reviewed the list of this year’s podcasts and recapped strategies from the 5 most popular topics that you may want to consider for 2022.

And here they are…drumroll please…

1. How to grow a selleable practice

The objective is to set up your cosmetic surgical practice as a business so it’s more predictable and profitable.

That way, it’s more enjoyable to go to every day, and it’s  more attractive to other surgeons to buy when you’re ready to exit.

But, you have a challenge that keeps you from winning in the long run.

As a surgeon, you were programmed to think in a certain fixed way.
You had to think that way to become a great surgeon.

However, that thinking is the opposite of how a businessperson thinks.

In a cosmetic practice, you, the surgeon, are the technician of the surgery, so you focus on that because you’re good at it and that’s what you know.

However, does that make for a sellable asset when you’re ready to retire?

Probably not, so you either have to work until you’re ready to close the doors and get nothing back for your efforts, or you can set your practice up to make a profitable exit and enjoy your retirement by using these strategies:

The first one is Mindset:

Shift your thinking from a surgeon to a businessperson and “Operate your practice like it’s for sale”.

Then regularly ask yourself, “If I wanted to sell my practice tomorrow, what would I need to improve to get the most value for it?” 

 When I interview surgeons on this Podcast and we talk about them buying another surgeon’s practice, the #1 value component they are looking for is a ready-made income stream.

Because Buyers are looking for a practice’s ability to generate cash with a degree of predictability and certainty.

That’s why it’s difficult to value the surgical side of your practice.

If you have been practicing with a “one and done” mindset, you’re not developing much of a bond with your patients because it’s such a short-term relationship.

And, to keep your surgical side busy, you have to market and advertise to attract new surgical patients and that increases your overhead costs so other surgeons have to look at not just your revenues but also your overhead to make those revenues happen.

Other surgeons know there’s no certainty that those surgical patients will come back for more surgery or come back soon enough or often enough.

However, if you can show a prospective buyer:

• Predictable revenues they can count on month after month that don’t include YOU
• an increase in the lifetime value of your current cosmetic patients
• And how you generate more referrals and reviews organically
• while differentiating your practice from all the others,

That’s interesting AND valuable.

Because now you have a predictable, systematic cosmetic revenue stream profit center that works without you and could easily be handed off to another surgeon.

You do that by building up the non-surgical aspect of your practice.

2. Hiring the Right Patient Coordinator

The difference between a 25% and 65% conversion rate is many, many thousands of dollars. It can also be the difference between a 6- or 7- or even 8-figure cosmetic practice.

It’s a game changer when you have a patient coordinator who knows how to convert so this position cannot be taken lightly.

Converting consultations is an art and trained skill. It takes the right strategies, knowledge and then lots of practice to get good at confidently taking a “stranger prospect” to a paying cosmetic patient.

So here are the traits a great patient coordinator must possess to ensure you have the right person representing you:

For starters, the most successful patient coordinator looks, acts, and feels the part.

So, Let’s start with looks.

This does not mean your coordinator needs to be gorgeous.

This means they need to be likeable, presentable and congruent with the high standards you set for the practice because they have to connect with the public
who will look to your coordinator as a role model for looking good and feeling confidant.

The most successful patient coordinator has the right mindset. They believe in plastic surgery. They see how much it enhances the lives of your patients.

They genuinely like working with prospective patients. They care about a prospective patient as a person and truly want to help them solve a problem they believe they have.

They are not “selling”. They are serving your patients. They believe they are providing a valuable service to prospective patients who need guidance.

They believe in the surgeon(s) they are representing, and they also believe in cosmetic rejuvenation as a gateway to personal self-fulfillment and happiness.

A great patient coordinator does all they can to help the prospective patient get to a yes and they persevere in the face of resistance, because they don’t see resistance as rejection. They see it as an opportunity to clear up the confusion on the patient’s side, so they get to a yes and reach their ultimate goal which is to be happy and confident with their appearance.

The most successful patient coordinator believes in themselves.

They have an inner drive to do their best. They like a challenge and they like to succeed.

They have a competitive edge so they hold themselves to a higher standard than most.

They have the confidence it takes to win in this position because they believe in you, the surgeon and the results the patient will get when they say YES.

That means they’re not afraid to ask the patient tough questions for fear of being viewed as “pushy” and then they professionally ask for a decision when the time is right because they want to give the patients what they want and they also want to win.

The most successful patient coordinator puts anxious prospective patients at ease so they open up and articulate what they want, why they want it and what it will take for the prospective patient to say YES.

They reassure the patient they are in the right place and will be happy with their result once they decide to move forward with you.

They have the people skills to make a prospective patient comfortable and trusting enough to make a decision to have their cosmetic procedure with you.

They know how to stay focused on the patient’s wants, fears, objections so they can artfully address the issues in the patient’s mind that are stopping them from moving forward.

This is the difference between an okay coordinator and a converting rock star.

This takes confidence, courage and well thought out strategies to convert a prospective patient to a paid surgical procedure.

3. Attract affluent patients

A common complaint I hear from plastic surgeons and their staff is their plastic surgery patients are so price-focused and ask them one thing:

“How much is it …?”

Or, during their consultation, they attempt to negotiate by telling you they can get the same thing cheaper from your competitors.

So how do you respond to that?

You DECIDE you no longer want cheap cosmetic patients so you no longer cater to them.

You decide to attract a better quality patient by stepping up your game so you attract the patients who care more about your skill, expertise and reputation than they do about saving money.

Here’s the secret:

Be, act and market as a higher-end practice does to attract affluent patients.

Details count since the patient is looking for clues to justify spending more with you than your discounting competitors. That includes the quality of:

• Your standards for how your practice is run
• Your well-orchestrated & consistent processes
• Your updated Website
• Your excellent results shown in your photo gallery
• Your social media platforms showing off your skills as a surgeon, leader, speaker, chef, etc.
• Your PR efforts and pro-bono activities
• Your receptionist’s friendly phone voice
• Your office location and furnishings
• Your positive online reviews
• Your videos on YouTube
• Your 5-star service mentality so the patient feels special throughout their experience with you and so on.

This is how to Attract Affluent Cosmetic Patients because the further up the food chain you go – the less “needs driven” these patients are.

It’s all about what they WANT to do – not what they NEED to do.

So they think differently than the cheap patients.

They are are not buying by price and value.

It’s more about the intangibles and what this procedure means to them that is driving their decision.

Affluent patients pay more because doing so makes them feel more like the person they either wish they were or envision themselves to be.

At this level, you are hardly talking about the surgery.

It’s the intangibles of the surgery that attracts the affluent patients to you.

The affluent patients are looking for superior service providers….even if it’s based on perception.

They believe they deserve the best, so they want the best because this group will pay a lot more to buy certainty.

So, knowing this, what makes price disappear from the equation and YOU the only choice for affluent patients?

The answer is YOU. 

You stand out from the crowd by doing what others won’t do or can’t do.

For example, Be The Expert.

The affluent patient wants to go to the BEST so specialize in one procedure.

Write a book about it.

Make YouTube videos about it.

Be interviewed explaining your unique approach to this procedure.

Do 10x more of this procedure than the average surgeon does.

Show off tons of transformational before/after photos of this procedure and encourage your patients to show off their own results on social media.

The point is after enough communication, familiarity, reinforcement and social proof, the affluent patients now have sufficient trust in you to choose you as their go-to plastic surgeon.

4. Prevent problem patients

As a cosmetic surgeon, you get all the risk when dealing with the cosmetic patient. You hope the prospective patient is hearing you when you say:

“I can’t make it perfect, but I can make it a lot better.”

The good news is most of your patients are friendly, reasonable, and realistic.

But the few patients who aren’t, can wreak havoc with your reputation and mental health.

What can trip you up are your own emotions during the consultation process. The two major ones being ego and greed.

It can be difficult to say no to prospective patients who want to give you money. That’s completely understandable.

Same thing with your ego. It’s so much easier during the consultation process to ignore your gut telling you to beware than to say no.

When interviewing surgeons about problem patients, they repeatedly say, “I knew there were red flags, but I thought I could manage them.”

I suggest you and your staff come up with a Red Flags Checklist that becomes protocol so if you can check any of the boxes, you DO NOT move forward. This helps take the emotion out of it.

However, you can still end up with a post-op patient who is not happy. It happens so I suggest the following steps:

First, listen without interrupting. Sometimes it’s just a complaint the patient wants to share with you, get off their chest and move on.

Acknowledge without getting defensive. Offer a sincere apology for how they feel. Not for any wrongdoing on your part, but you are sorry they are not happy.

Ask Questions to figure out how serious the situation is.

You are looking for WHY they feel the way they do and what it is they want from you.
They may surprise you and have a simple request that would satisfy them.

And lastly, Do Something!

Make it right! Don’t just promise to make it right, actually take a proactive step in the right direction.

Offer solutions such as cortisone shots, lymphatic massage, a touch up in the office, comp your fees or discount OR fees to go back into surgery.

Then thank them for being reasonable and working with you to rectify the situation.      

And lastly, #5 of the top 5 posts this year is

5. What google said about attracting plastic surgery patients

Organic reach and advertising results have decreased significantly and that’s making it a whole lot more difficult and expensive for you to attract new patients.

And I’m thinking, if plastic surgeons can’t market and advertise to consumers, how the heck are you supposed to grow your practice?

To find the answer for you, I did what I always do… I googled it and here are the 6 ways google says you should grow your practice:

1. Get more google reviews but google wants the reviews to provide useful, constructive feedback that is detailed, specific and honest.

2. Enhance your online image
Update your website, be sure it’s mobile friendly and Include social media buttons so patients get to know you better and you can show off your skill with lots of before/after photos and videos of FAQs for each procedure.

Also, add fresh, updated content to as many different platforms as possible to increase your footprint on the Internet.

3. Don’t Miss Out on the Social Media Platforms

You may not understand or care about social media or you don’t want to put in the time, but it’s become a must-have patient attraction channel.

I recommend you assign a staff person or hire someone specifically to follow you around with an iphone or ipad and record you doing “the day in the life of a plastic surgeon”.

Your staff can then turn the footage into interesting content on different platforms.

4. Positive or negative…..respond to reviews

You are bound to get some bad reviews. It’s just the cost of doing business with consumers.

Your best approach is to respond quickly, stay professional and apologize for the situation
(not for your work) and offer to talk it over since your overall goal is patient satisfaction.

5. Train your staff

Your staff will make or break your practice so please get the right people on the bus, get them in the right seats, give them the training they need to succeed and then hold them accountable.

For example, Your receptionist must have the skills to

• Present YOU as the BEST choice for the caller who has many options;

• To Answer the question, “How much is it?” so the caller can move forward to
  booking the appointment; as well as to
• Convert the caller to a booked appointment!

And Your coordinator must have the skills to:

Understand the patient’s true wants and needs and
How to handle a patient who wants to negotiate and
How to professionally convert a consultation to a paid procedure

These 2 pivotal points in the patient experience make up HALF of your revenues. Please be sure your staff is professionally trained to convert callers and consults.

And the 6th way to get more patients per google is to ….

6. Build strong relations with existing patients and Referrals will follow.

It changes everything when you have a “patients for life” mindset. When you see your patients as friends and family and treat them with respect, they grow your practice for you.

As Maya Angelo says,

“They won’t remember what you told them.

They won’t remember what you showed them.

But they WILL remember how you made them feel!"

Please make your patients feel important, wanted and appreciated.

These happy patients will be your patients for decades and return for more as the aging process continues.

They will refer their family members and friends who will then refer their family members and friends and so on and so on so your practice grows organically with preferred patients you want.

📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine

⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days

⬇️⬇️⬇️

Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and how to think your way to success.

I’m your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today’s episode is called "Think Your Way to Success".

Every single thing ever invented began as a thought…

• Caves became houses
• Horse-drawn carriages became cars
• Media became the Internet and on and on

And, as an aside, what’s really trippy is the ideas for those things and others, like the iPhone, kindle, and social media were always there, but nobody thought them up yet. 

Look at what’s happened to the aesthetic industry….several different neurotoxins have been introduced, lots of different fillers and the technical advancements keep on coming!

It all starts with a thought so for this week’s Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I talk about why thinking is an overlooked skill, why it’s important and I give you strategies how to think constructively.

I “think” you will get a lot out of this ;-)

P.S. If you know it’s time to invest in you, your practice, and your future, please check this out:

Enjoy!

Catherine Maley, MBA

Review Beauty and the Biz on Apple Podcasts and get my 5-star rated book. FREE!

Transcript:

Think Your Way to Success

Catherine Maley, MBA: Welcome to Beauty and the Biz. Discover how to grow your practice with effective cosmetic patient attraction, conversion, and retention advice. From author, speaker, trainer, and cosmetic practice, business and marketing coach, Catherine Maley, MBA.

Hello and welcome to Beauty and the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing, and how to think your way to success.

Plastic surgery. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of “Your Aesthetic Practice, what your patients are saying”, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits; as well as coach on how to think your way to success.

Today's podcast episode is called “Think Your Way to Success”. So, while consulting with plastic surgeons since year 2000 and interviewing them on my Beauty and the Biz Podcast, I have found the most successful think differently.

And the good news is it can be learned. So good thinking is a skill worth practicing. It can generate revenue. Solve problems and create opportunities. It really can change your life. However, it's different thinking than the kind you did to become a surgeon. Your training was based on science and specific techniques taught by others before you.

Now, this structured thinking was crucial to you becoming a great surgeon, but not so helpful. When trying to become a successful business person. So, you need to think differently when you run a practice, lead a team, manage the business, and compete in a crowded marketplace. But have you ever heard the saying; thinking is hard work if you want to think your way to success.

That's why so few do it, So when you take the time to become a better thinker, you are investing in yourself. So, I'm going to give you 11 strategies to help you become a much better think. Here's number one, feed your mind with good stuff. So good ideas don't typically just happen. You search for them to get the mind juices flowing so you find good ideas by reading books, reviewing trade magazines, listening to podcasts like this one, and spending time with other good thinkers to expose yourself to thoughts you haven't thought before, but ideas come and go quickly. So, you want to jot them down immediately in order to think your way to success. Keep paper in pen handy, or add ideas that come up to your iPhone notes.

Now, I personally get lots of ideas when I'm walking my dog and listening to podcasts. So, I text them to myself and then I transfer them to my file of ideas that I refer to.

Now, here's number two on how to think your way to success. Schedule it. Life will keep you focused on the busyness of your day, so there's no time to stop and think unless you make the time. So, block the time on your calendar just like you do for new patient consultations. That's how important this is. This can be. One hour per week, one day per month, or a couple of days per year.

Grab a pen and paper, find a quiet place with no distractions, and then ask yourself really good questions to get the ideas flowing. For example, you could ask, how can I increase my revenues without working harder? Or how can I enjoy managing staff and building a more productive culture? Or what skills could or should I learn to help me grow my practice?

Now here's number three on how to think your way to success. Find your thinking place. Everyone is different. So, notice where you are and what you're doing when the best ideas come to you. It can be in the shower, the car, the park, while you're jogging or flying or cooking or falling asleep or whatever. Now just go to these thinking places more often, and your mind will condition itself to think of more ideas more often.

It's that simple.

Now, here's number 4 on how to think your way to success. Journal for more clarity. If you like me, find it challenging to sit quietly and wait for thoughts to come to you. Here's a strategy I've used for years, so I have a folder on my desktop called notes and they're labeled by each year. Now I ask myself a question. I set the timer for 10 or 20 minutes, and then I just type, and frankly, I type faster than I hand write, so this works better for me.

So, at first, I'm just kind of typing and babbling, but then my brain starts to slow down and focus and it starts opening up, and the babble turns into thoughts. And some of those thoughts turn into an idea. Now most just clear my mind, so I feel better getting certain thoughts off. But I've gotten some of my best ideas that have grown legs and made me money.

So, you might want to give this a try to think your way to success.

Now here's number five on how to think your way to success. Share if your idea affects anyone else. Think it through before sharing. So, ask yourself., if you believe it has merit and you have confidence in it, that it could make a difference. If so, present it to others to get their insights and feedback.

Sometimes though, when said aloud and discussed, you realize it's not that great of an idea after all. But other times, the feedback you get back grows the idea to something worth pursuing and getting excited about to help you think your way to success.

Here's number six on how to think your way to success: Take action immediately. A thought is just a thought until it's executed to think your way to success.

So, ideas come and go on how to think your way to success. So, if you have a good one, immediately act on it to keep it alive. For example, you think of a good idea from pondering the questions above, and that is to hire a patient liaison whose primary responsibility is to follow up on the leads coming in, so you take the next step. And let's say that is to have your office manager write and place an ad for this patient liaison.

Now, if you need help with that, like how to execute it, you can get all those details about how to hire from visiting www.cosmeticpracticevault.com. Now, in the vault, I lay out exactly how you find the right person, how you train and motivate them, and then how you hold them accountable. Just saying.

Now here's number 7 on how to think your way to success

Thinking is a learned skill. Becoming a good thinker is a discipline that you can get really good at By practicing. Just open your mind, be curious, ask why, and how. A whole lot more often, such as, why do we do this task? Or how could we do it better? Or could we do something else instead that is faster, cheaper, easier, or more.

Now here's number eight on how to think your way to success: Think big picture.

It's so easy to get caught up in the minute details versus the overall bigger picture when thinking your way to success. An example would be you reminding your staff regularly that customer service. Is more important than double booking and making patients wait. Instead, you figure out how to avoid no-shows in the first place so you don't have to double book.

For example, you can charge a consult fee or at least reserve their time with a credit card while when they're booking. Um, and you can even text multiple appointment reminders and so on. Get a lot more creative about how to. Good customer service rather than the opposite.

Now, here's number nine on how to think your way to success: Always be learning good thinking, in order to think your way to success.

Surgeons stay open to learning and growing for a lifetime. Even though they spent many years learning to be a surgeon, they realize there's more to it than that. They now have to learn to be a good leader, manager, and marketer to stay.

Now, here's number 10 on how to think your way to success. Listen to the experts. You can get a Reader's Digest shortcut education just by listening to others who have been there and done that.

The specialized experts have already done the heavy thinking on a certain topic, so you don't have to, which helps you think your way to success. For example, you can spend 40 hours on the weekends learning the latest marketing hacks, or you can pay an expert in plastic surgeon marketing to customize a proven marketing plan for you. So, for example, if your time is worth at least a thousand dollars an hour, which it is, and the consultant charges 10 grand, that's a savings of 30 grand and you'll have an actionable plan to execute.

Doesn't that make more sense to think your way to success?

And the last one is, number 11 on how to think your way to success: Think big.

This is different than thinking big picture to think your way to success. This is more like 10 times in your efforts and results To make that happen, you would have to think. How could you do that? It will expand your mind and your thinking. So, for example, if you currently bring in 1 million a year, thinking big has you asking yourself, how could I bring in 10 million instead?

Now, whenever you ask your brain a question, it has to give you back an answer, which is key on learning to think your way to success. So, listen and take notes when the ideas come, and some of those ideas will be something like, raise your prices or bring on more service providers who have big following. Or train other surgeons on your innovative techniques, and that's just to name a few examples on how to think your way to success.

If you sit still long enough, the answers are within and they will come to you. So, to wrap this up, I wanted to leave you with a few quotes to bring the point home. Ralph Waldo Emerson said, everything begins with a thought. John Locke said, what we think determines who we are, who we are determines what.

James Allen said, our thoughts determine our destiny. Our destiny determines our legacy. Now, my own advice that I learned from Wayne Dyer, the spiritual guru, is if you change the way you think about things, the things you think about change. Gosh, that is so true. So that wraps it up for me. If you haven't already, would you please subscribe to Beauty and the Biz and then of course check out www.cosmeticpracticevault.com.

It's got everything you need to know about the business and marketing of running a very specific successful plastic surgery practice.

Everybody that’s going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on how to think your way to success.

And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.

If you’ve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don’t miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.

And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.

Go to www.CosmeticPracticeVault.com and let’s grow your cosmetic revenue.

-End transcript for “Think Your Way to Success".

#cosmeticsurgeonpodcast #plasticsurgeonpodcast #aestheticpracticemarketing #cosmeticpracticestafftraining #cosmeticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #plasticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #strategiesforsurgeons #morepatientsmoreprofits #aestheticsurgeonbusinesscoaching #medspabusinesscoaching #medspamarketinghelp #cosmeticsurgeonmarketinghelp #howtogetmorepatients #plasticsurgeonmarketinghelp #aestheticpracticemarketinghelp #beautyandthebiz #podcastforplasticsurgeons #podcastforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonideas #plasticsurgeonagency #plasticsurgeonconsultant #plasticsurgeonstrategies #plasticsurgeonservices #plasticsurgeontrends #plasticsurgerymarketing #marketingplasticsurgeons #marketingplasticsurgery #cosmeticsurgeondigitalmarketing #cosmeticsurgeonmarketing #howtopromotecosmeticsurgery #socialmediamarketingforplasticsurgeons #socialmediamarketingforcosmeticsurgeons #plasticsurgeonsocialmediaideas #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtofindcosmeticpatients #howtoattractcosmeticpatients #howtoconvertcosmeticpatients #howtoretaincosmeticpatients #cosmeticpatientadvertisingideas #cosmeticpatientstrategies #cosmeticpatientconsultant #cosmeticpatientservices #cosmeticsurgeonads #digitalmarketingforplasticsurgeons #consultanttoplasticsurgeons #consultanttocosmeticsurgeons #seoforplasticsurgeonsusingai #onlinereputationmanagementforplasticsurgeons #leadgenerationforplasticsurgeons #cosmeticpatientreferralmarketing #brandingforplasticsurgeons 

#thinkyourwaytosuccess #successfulthinking #successfulplasticsurgeons

📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine

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📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine

⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days

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Hello, and welcome to Beauty and the Biz where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery, and how Burke Robinson, MD went from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

I’m your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice – What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons, to get them more patients and more profits. Now, today’s episode is called "40-Surgeon Practice to Solo — with Burke Robinson, MD".

I am fascinated by surgeons’ stories that relay their jagged paths from fellowship to where they are today.

Nobody’s path was a smooth one and nothing went scheduled as planned. 

That’s life. It’s full of surprises, twists and turns and the secret is to adapt to these challenges and grow (or give up and settle for less).

This week’s special guest Dr. Burke Robinson knows this well and decided to grow.

He is a board-certified facial plastic & reconstructive surgeon with 30 years of experience in private practice in Alpharetta GA.

Dr. Robinson had a tough childhood start but managed to become a surgeon in spite of it, and then he ended up in a 40-surgeon ENT practice for years. 

Like others who had the calling for “more”, he finally spread his wings and went out on his own. 

We talked about the challenges he faced, what it took for him to finally make the move to private practice and pearls learned along the way. 

He also gives a really good tip for buying a laser ;-)

Visit Dr Robinson's Website

Transcript:

40-Surgeon Practice to Solo — with Burke Robinson, MD

Catherine Maley, MBA: Hello everyone and welcome to Beauty in the Biz, where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery and going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. I'm your host, Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice — What your patients are saying, as well as consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and more profits.

Now today's episode is with Dr. Burke Robinson, who’s has experience going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. Now he's a board-certified facial plastic surgeon with 30 years’ experience. He's in private practice with two offices in Alpharetta and Atlanta, Georgia. Now, Dr. Robinson has been nationally recognized as an expert facial plastic surgeon by peers and patients alike.

He's lectured at medical conferences around the world, which is how I know him, and he is regularly invited to speak on this subject of facial plastic surgery to. Now, Dr. Robinson enjoys numerous awards for his commitment to excellence in patient care, education, and safety that include "Castle Connolly's Top Doctors", as well as "Best of Georgia" and "Top Doctor" in Atlanta Magazine for eight years in a row.

It's a good accomplishment how he went from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. Now, Dr. Robinson is a huge proponent of giving back to his local community, and he supports many. Community events and nonprofit organizations. Dr. Robinson, thank you so much for joining me on Beauty and the Biz.

Burke Robinson, MD: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure, Catherine.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah, thanks so much.

So, tell me why facial plastic surgery, who grows up saying, I want to be a facial plastic surgeon and go from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Burke Robinson, MD: That's a great question. Well, really it goes back to what I did in college. I worked in an emergency room as an orderly or a tech. And my two responsibilities were a trauma room. This is before we really had level one trauma centers.

So, I'm dating myself and the suture rooms where all the lacerations were taken care of. And the thing I enjoyed the most was somebody who came in like Humpty Dumpty, a laceration that was like a Stella laceration. Very complicated. And the ER doctor would refer it on. To the plastic surgeon to come in and put them back together.

And I had the pleasure of first assisting the plastic surgeon in the ER as they put everything back together. And it just amazed me every time how I'd look at it in my novice way and go, I don't know what they're going to do for this one. And yet they would pull a miracle out of the hat and the patient would go home looking almost normal again.

So, I think it started there and then, Going into medicine and starting medical school. Of course, early on you want to be everything you're studying at the moment, cardiology, you know, whatever it is at your rotation. But it always came back to wanting to use my hands and being able to do something that could be seen by others.

And so, the beauty of facial plastic surgery is the combination of those two.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Gotcha. Now I had been, I read your bio and you started off in a huge ENT practice with 40 surgeons, before you went from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. Correct. What was that like? I can't imagine 40 surgeons making a decision about toilet paper, let alone running a business

So how, how did that go and when did you go from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah, it was, it was a good thing. It wasn't chefs, so there would've been knives flying everywhere. Right. It was it really was a good experience overall because I made a lot of real good friends who are still good friends and colleagues of mine to this day. And they were some of my referral sources.

I was the only facial plastic surgeon in a E N T group of over 40. E n t surgeons. But we were at one time, even from what I was told, bigger than Mayo Clinic, we had four pediatric ENTs. We had head and neck oncologist, et cetera. So, it was nice to be a subspecialist early on. Made a lot of good friendships.

I learned a lot from them. They learned from me. But you know, as you alluded to, at the end, after six years, it was just unyielding and, you know, everybody wanted to be in charge and nobody wanted to be the Indian. And so unfortunately the, the group dissolved. To this day I still have some very good friendships with many of those people in there, and we refer back and forth as we can.

But most importantly, it really jettisons me into where I am now because now, I've been in my solo practice for 21 years and it's the best thing I ever did for myself. And at that time, I was around 40 years old. I remember calling my dad and I always say my dad was the original motivational speaker.

He, he just knew what to say and when to. I was kind of confused, didn't know what to do. Do I try and hang in with the group that's dissolving, go on my own, do I move somewhere, whatever. And, and one of the options was to go out on my own in Atlanta, and it seemed daunting to me, and yet I thought that was the right move.

And his common sense was, well, son, if you don't do it now, when are you going to do it? And after that I was like, yep, it's time. And ever since then, I've never looked back. I thought I'd missed the camaraderie, but my camaraderie is really not people I see face to face, but people I talk to see at meetings or, you know, during a year's time.

And as a result, I was able to have a lot of independence. I rarely missed a child's event. Was able to take vacations when I wanted, how long I wanted. And in the end, all the ups and all the downs I've gotten to own and I'm very happy with my decision.

Catherine Maley, MBA: That's fantastic. What, what the audience doesn't know is we're both from Chicago.

Burke Robinson, MD That's right.

Catherine Maley, MBA: But how did you end up in Georgia and go from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Burke Robinson, MD: Well, yeah, it's kind of a long journey. We, I was born and raised in the suburbs of Chicago and we moved to Arizona when I was in high school because my dad, who was a businessman, he worked in the loop of Chicago, was injured the day before Thanksgiving, when I was in eighth grade.

and had a severe neck injury, and so we had to move out of the cold, damp environment to the desert for his rehabilitation. So that's how we ended up in Arizona. So, I finished high school in Phoenix and did college in med school in Tucson, and then from there did my residency in the University of Minnesota.

So, I went from the desert. Back to the Tundra. And then I did my fellowship with Davinder Mange after my residency and did some research along the way at Walter Reed as a n I H fellow, and then was recruited by the group that we just talked about here in Atlanta and ended up landing here. And it seemed like a great way to get started in a major city because I knew for what I wanted to do, which was elective cosmetic surgery, I really needed to be in a bigger environment and Atlanta suited it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Perfect. Gotcha. What now did you stay with e n t or facial plastic surgery or reconstructive? How did, how did you, obviously you had to start with reconstructive probably to get the thing going, but where are you at now with that versus cosmetic surgery and going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Burke Robinson, MD: Right now, I'm 100% cosmetic with no insurance, and that's a journey that takes a long time, and there's two schools of thought, as you know, consulting One is you jump off the deep end and you just do that from the beginning.

The other end is if you've been trained in an E N T residency, you start off doing that and build your cosmetic practice along the way. I did the ladder and I'm glad I did it that way. A lot of the referrals I had early on in building my career were from nurses, anesthesiologists, dermatologists, doing MO'S reconstruction.

They saw my demeanor; they saw how I handled situations. They could see that it was different from other people and built a lot of trust in the medical community that really started the groundswell. Once you then had those referrals from those type of referral sources, then your patients became your ambassadors and it builds, you know, and compounded from there.

So even though you know, it's not a, anyone who's done a fellowship in facial plastic surgery does not want to go back to general E N T or doing reconstruction, I don't think it's a bad necessary evil. I think there's a lot of prose to it, and it builds you. The respect in the medical community and amongst patients to this day, I will occasionally have a patient may have taken their kids' tonsils out 20 years ago, and they still remembered from the way I had my office decorated, which was strictly an aesthetic.

Practice. I didn't have Mr. Larynx on the wall. It was everything spoke about facial plastic surgery. They will come in and say, yeah, you took care of my kid 20 years ago and now I'm here. I want to do my eyelids, or I want to do my facelift. That's very complimentary because they saw me as being a good surgeon, not necessarily what I did, but also just being a good surgeon for how I treated their family.

Catherine Maley, MBA: In my experience in today's world, I, I'm not sure you can live off of the referrals anymore because of the way the insurance is set up. And I just think it's so difficult to dabble in cosmetics. There are too many competitors who just eat, drink, and sleep cosmetic, so it's really tough to compete when you are not in it 24 7 like your competitors are, or they're willing to spend more for to help them when going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

Cosmetic patient than you are, because it's just so difficult. I, I hear you. Like I used to say, just jump, you know, just jump. Right. But then we've all been through a recession for, in 2008. It's like, let's not jump yet, you know, So I, I, I hear you. I don't know what the real answer is, but I was staying on the fence, I don't think is the right answer for today's world, but I could be wrong.

Burke Robinson, MD: Well, I think if you took my route, you have to understand that if you walked into that office, you had no idea what I did other than plastic surgery. Okay. Everything was built around that way, and that's why it quickly transitioned. And I used to laugh because it used to be they come in and they wanted their septum fixed and they're like, oh, I see your plastic surgeon.

Could you do my nose? Now? They'll come in and they'll say, I want my nose done. And., I saw in your bio that you're also e n T trained. Can you fix my septum? Yeah. That's when you know you've arrived.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. that that's going to always be your biggest issue with the I need my septum. And while you're there, can you just take care of that bump, right?

Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah.

Catherine Maley, MBA: That's going to, that, that comes up. I, how often does that come up and how does that relate to going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Burke Robinson, MD: All the time. Yeah, yeah. But at this point, my, I mean, I've been mature in cosmetics for a good 15 years. So, the first five years-ish was, you know, a transition. And then after that it, I haven't looked back.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Now, are you the only one that obviously you're the only one doing surgery, but I also saw you have a PA and an RN.

Where are they fitting into this and your goal of going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo? And are, and I noticed you're doing quite a bit, you have a full-on med spa with offering tons of nonsurgical. Treatments because that's another huge investment. Can we just talk about that? Because others are afraid to put that investment in, but how important is it to have a surgical slash nonsurgical practice in today's world?

Burke Robinson, MD: It's imperative, as you were talking about in today's world.

In, in today's world, you will not make it in this space without doing nonsurgical treatments, and we can break that down further to med spa and injectables. If you're not doing injectables and you say, I just have a surgical practice, you're not going to thrive. In my world, I, I always make the point that injectables don't replace surgery, and surgery doesn't replace what injectables can do.

They complement each other. Mm-hmm., and I think it's really important if you want to be a good business. That you have people working hard under you, that you're not doing everything and you know, pure profit is me in the operating., right? So, if I get injectors to do the injectables, I can be in the operating room more, which is a higher cell and a higher profit rate for the business overall.

Mm-hmm. So, I, I've done a lot of trainings. I'm a trainer for Galderma, so I've been around the country for 17 years teaching others how to do injectables. And the practices that are successful are the surgeons that are willing to let go of the injectable practice. And let the injectors get those patients not compete with them because they're going to be making more and more money for you while you're in the OR.

Okay. And you build them up, you keep the pricings the same if you have good mature injectors, which I do. Both of them been doing it for almost 15 years each. You'll do much better financially and you'll have less stress and you can focus more on what you're really meant to do, which is surgery. I still do some injectables, fill in some time, but I would never make it doing what I do just in injectables.

So, I would strongly encourage everyone to always be looking at getting some mid-level if the state laws require it and have them be working hard underneath you and get good people and then pay them. What they're deserving. Don't, don't hold back because they will work hard for you. And then separate from that, we have, we have our two injectors and we're already looking for our third, which is great because the two now are booked out a couple months and they're full-time.

But then we also have an esthetician and she's been with me for 24 years and she's amazing at what she does. And as you said, offering the lasers, the cyan, the b l, the halo. Peels, everything from as simple as doing the I'm blanking on it now. HydraFacials all the way up to doing broadband light and inhaler resurfacing, having that whole spectrum and everything in the middle again, allows the patient to find a space in your office so they're not ready for surgery or they've had surgery.

I always make sure. Then they go through the med spa and they do their assessment to tell them, here's what you do to maintain your investment long term, and those patients keep coming.

Catherine Maley, MBA: That's the secret to that and how that ties in with going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. I'm telling you; I am that patient that goes up and down that ladder. I've had enough surgery at this point.

I don't want any more surgery right now. What else you have? You know, and Right, and I'll stay put. You give me, what else do you have? And now I'm loving. The lasers have come a really long way. The downtime's not half as bad as it used to be on certain treatments. I mean, you're getting, you're getting as much revenue out of me in between the surgical.

Because there's so many more things to do in regards to going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. It's amazing if you have all the time and the money in the world, it's shocking. It's, it's shocking what you can do in today's world. You can go... I mean from the tip, you know, from top to bottom. You can tighten every body part you can. Fill in anything you want, you can undo.

It's just shocking what you can do nowadays. So, I couldn't agree more. Keep, get that patient, keep them with you, but then also have a good understanding or a bridge between the two of you, between surgical and nonsurgical. Mm-hmm., because I have noticed a tendency for the nonsurgical staff to like hoard that patient because they don't want to lose them and that's not the right.

They'll come back, let him, let him have surgery and they'll come back to you later to help you go from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

Burke Robinson, MD: I agree. And I think on the flip side, for as the surgeon and the head of the business, you know, every patient at their six-week follow-up gets automatically sent. To, to either the injector or, you know, if I have time I'll inject, but usually I'll send them to the injector because I know they'll be able to do the return, return routine business because my schedule's too busy with surgery and they automatically are sent to go see my aesthetician as well.

 Because the patient at six weeks post-op is like a bird in the nest. And they'll do whatever you tell them to do because they're so happy. So, if you say, look, now this is what we're going to do to take you to the next step. They want to know what else they can do. They want to know what is my next step in this journey.

And I always tell them, you and I are done for a while walking down this path, but someone else is going to get on with you now and continue down the road. And they like to know that. And so, but it's so important that the, the surgeon says that they shouldn't have to go home and then go to your website and they, oh, they have an aesthetician.

Maybe I should call them, make an appointment. They get that appointment on their way out at that six-week visit.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Good job. Now it sounds, oh, do you have any tips on how to buy lasers and how that might relate to going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Burke Robinson, MD: No, that's all good., you and I were just at the Global Aesthetic Conference and my good friend Ross CLEs gave a great lecture on that.

I, I think you have to go slow. So, here's an example. We have a great laser. I love it. The cyan, halo, all that stuff. But then we, I won't say the brand, but we bought a skin tightening machine three years ago, and it's the best-looking door jamb I've ever bought. So now they have a new flavor that's come out.

Here's my recommendation because this is really what, what? Wherever meets the road, there's a new version of something out there. Again, I won't say the name, but I told the salesman, I said, I will rent the machine from you one day a month, three months in a row, and I'm going to treat my own patients with my pictures.

And then we'll look at them and we'll decide. And if it does what you're telling me it does, I'll buy two of them. But if it doesn't, I'm not buying it. So, we're now on our third month on a trial. I think that's the best thing to do with any of these devices is you should test drive it first, not just goes by their pictures, because you can be misled.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, how is it going? Because skin tightening, I'm still very underwhelmed by it.

Burke Robinson, MD: I'm not feeling like I'm going to opening my checkbook anytime soon,

Catherine Maley, MBA: I just, I, I wouldn't go there. I just wouldn't. There are too many things you can do to give somebody a really good result if you're going to make them wait.

Another thing is waiting three months. Patients. Nobody wants to wait anymore. Everything's become so instant. Right. I just, I wouldn't bank on anything that you can't see for real, like honestly honest photos, which helps in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. I just, good, that was a really good tip. Yeah. Don't jump in unless you know what the heck.

Like you see your own proof.

Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah. And, and another thing I've learned over the decades is being always honest. You know, you may have a car payment due, but that doesn't mean you should take advantage of the patient because you have a machine that doesn't really do anything. It's going to come back to bite you.

Right? And you'll get many more referrals with a patient who say, you know, we really don't have a great answer for what you want right now. They're going to tell five people that this guy is honest and they're going to send their friends. And as opposed to them blogging and about how you took their money and the thing didn't change how they look at all.

And so sometimes we have to bite the bullet and realize we bought something that doesn't work, instead of trying to push it on people and then pay a heavy price in social media.

Catherine Maley, MBA: For sure. That changed everything, didn't it? Oh, yes. So, let's talk about staff and specifically, going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo, because it sounds like you have a pretty good handle on staff.

You've had them for a long time. Mm-hmm., what's the secret? Have you also experienced that post covid staff resignation, or where are you at with that?

Burke Robinson, MD: Yes. I think everybody has staff re or they call it a slow resignation. Yeah, after Covid I had two employees who were excellent. Both leave to get out of.

Oh, they just burned out and they left not because of working here. They, they just, they, they went in and went into sales and her husband bought it. The other one, her husband had a business and she wanted to go work with him, and she was very good and loved medicine. Yeah, we've had a problem off and on with the, the co-post covid slow resignation that's going on, and it's really hard.

In fact, I would say that's the hardest thing in running your own business is the. Human resources are the thing that I've always found the most challenging. I think, again, treat people how you want to be treated. When I was in that big group, there were times I didn't think I was treated with respect, and I didn't want to ever do that to an employee that I had if I went out on my own.

I think people need to be able to make a good wage reasonable for what they're doing for the business. And I, I also. Provide all the extras. I provide health insurance. We, they have their p t O off. We have medical what is it, 1 25? I can't, I think that's what it is. And I pay for everyone's lunch every day.

We get groceries every week. Everyone puts in what they want to eat and so they don't have to leave the office. So, they make whatever they want to eat. Trying, trying and do everything I can, you know, retreats do everything possible to make them know that they're appreciated and you know, it's a fine line because you don't want to become so close like family, but close enough that they know that they are appreciated.

Anytime I ever get an award, I always send my email and verbally say, we won this. I didn't win this. And I think when staff are treated with respect overall, you won't have a big revolving door going on. That being said probably the biggest mistake I've made in my career in owning a business is sometimes I hired from within and I should not have.

The Peter principal has shown up more than once in my office, and I own that. That's my fault. But you. Close to staff and you think they can do the next level job, and that's not always the case. And so, I'd recommend to your listeners think twice before you hire for a higher position from hiring within, you may want to keep that for outside.

There are advantages of keeping people within and promoting them, but you may be promoting them to a position they're really not capable of performing. And perhaps your personal. Appreciation for them can get in the way of your business decision.

Catherine Maley, MBA: And then once you do that, it's difficult to demote them back to where they were, which can be contrary to being able to go from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

It's getting all awkward. Yeah. But that's too bad that I don't find that happens as much. I'll tell you what I have learned that it's happened lately, which I've completely changed my stance on this. I used to have like a staff reward program and I mean, you give them like $250 a quarter as long as that new patient state that they referred, not patient, I'm sorry their friend.

You know, referred and then they stayed. So, they kept getting paid for it for that year. So, they got a thousand dollars, you know, to have this referral. The issue is if they leave, then the other person leaves. So now you lost two people at the same time, You know, so I thought, well, okay, that's not working out as well as it used to, so, no.

Yeah, I think it's always going to be a challenge because we, human beings are complex, you know, at the, at best, and circumstances change and life changes. I mean, it sounds like you've had a, a good run though, if you've had people that have been with you for more than five years. I think it's genius. You know, and you're feeding them quite well, which helps you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

I mean, I hope they appreciate that. That's a big deal and it does help with going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

Burke Robinson, MD: I think they do. They show up by staying and working really hard. I think. It's a good mutual respect and, and they do everything I ask of them with a smile. You know, we always say a servant attitude is what you have to have here. This is Disney World for adult women, basically.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. How do you, how do you get that culture? I am shocked when I'm the consultant who's going to do a practice assessment on site. Shocked at the, some of the attitudes that I'm, they don't look up (which doesn’t help them if they went from a 40-surgeon practice to solo). They don't acknowledge me as I walk in or walk by. They don't smile. And I think really, you're, this is a fun medicine business.

You know, like you're not having fun and you're not have it. Let me have fun. I just How do you teach that to help in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Burke Robinson, MD: That's a great question, Catherine, and I think. You teach it by demonstrating it, it's by your leadership of a servant attitude. There's nothing in this office that's below me that I wouldn't do.

Like if my medical assistant's busy, I'll grab a chart, I'll bring the patient back, I'll room, I'll take the pictures. I think everyone needs to see the leader being willing to do that. I think that's where it starts. And I also think Showing respect for everybody in the practice, no matter whether it's the administrator or the front desk person, they all have an important role and really one doesn't supersede the other one necessarily.

And I learned that because my first job in college was a clerk with the old IBM electric typewriter in the emergency room, typing out admission forms. and triaging patients. That was my first year in the er, and then the following years is when I became an orderly, but I realized what it was like to answer phones to deal with patients.

Through a window. And then it being you know, an orderly being on the nursing side, not the physician side, and seeing what made things easier for me and how I could be disrespected or respected. And I think learning that and then reproducing what I thought was appropriate when I would have my own business and people who were working for me, that I wouldn't make those faux PAs to.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Good for you. So then do you still have two locations that maybe helped you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Burke Robinson, MD: We have our main location, as you mentioned, is in Alpharetta, the second location we are there off and on, it's down. It's with a cosmetic dermatology practice more inside Atlanta. You've heard of trading barriers? Mm-hmm., you know, so Atlanta's surrounded by an interstate and so you either live in the perimeter or outside the perimeter.

So sometimes you need to have a presence inside the perimeter because people in the perimeter just don't want to. Outside the perimeter to Alpharetta. Mm-hmm., but most of my time is spent in Alpharetta.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Okay. Because I know a lot of the practices, they have a satellite office and it's basically to attract just a, a bigger target audience, which in turn, would help them in in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

But then I, now I look at that and I say, I think we should do a cost benefit analysis of that for you to be out of the office commuting worrying about what's happening there when you are not there. But in your case, that was different. You. You didn't have to run this whole practice and staff it and all of that.

But I think again, in today's world, I think the complexity of that can often outweigh the advantage of it in terms of going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

Burke Robinson, MD: I agree. We were down there a lot more, 50 50, and it became complex. And that was still subleasing. That wasn't a whole separate office that I was responsible for. I was, it was a turnkey with a cosmetic dermatology practice.

So, it was really just show up, pop open your laptops. But even then, it just became, and it became confusing for patients. Mm-hmm., because they would think they're going to that location to see me and I was in the other office. Ah. So, we've. Limited it quite a bit now from going there, just for the reasons you said the complexity and you know, even though I was only paying for when I was there, just no reason to pay for it.

And I think as you become more known in your community and your reputation, people are willing to drive. It's like your hairdresser, if she went across town in San Francisco, you're probably going to go across town, right? Yep. Yeah, I think it's the same for. Mm.

Catherine Maley, MBA: So, do you have any plans to expand to help you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo, or where you, I mean, you, you've been at this for 30 years, by the way.

You certainly don't look at, you're, you're holding up very nicely.

Burke Robinson, MD: I might. Thank you. What injectables can do for you.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Right? This, this industry is amazing. So, what, do you have any plans like to grow or, or, or not grow to help or not help in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah. We're going to be hiring a third injector here in the next year now, cause our two injectors.

Crazy busy. And that's the nice thing about the market, as long as the economy can kind of hang in there the injectable world is only going to explode. It's not going to shrink, and you got to be a part of it. So that's the next step. And then I'd like to get down to four days a week instead of five and then bring a junior partner in.

That's what I'm looking for, you know, down the road in the next, I don't know, three to five years, somewhere in there. But I really enjoy what I'm doing. I think I'm at my best right now. Mm-hmm., I don't know what I'd do if I was off the whole week, but I would like to have three-day weekends, so the short-term goals, the injector, and then go to four days a week and then bring in a junior and then start to transition out, you know slowing down even more and doing more things than I like to.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you have any hobbies (besides going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo)? I know a lot of surgeons don't have any hobbies, like doing surgery is what they like to do. So, what else would you do? You know?

Burke Robinson, MD: Well, that, that is, you know, that is a problem for surgeons because we have to recreate ourselves because we've been so dedicated. I, I like to play golf.

I'm not good at it, but it's something I really enjoy. Yeah. And I do want to focus that on, cause I think I can really take me. My focal abilities and really hone in on that skill, but it's something of repetition. So, I enjoy doing that. I enjoy skiing in the winter, go out to Colorado several times. I enjoy doing those two things.

And, and dinking around the, the house, some of the gardening, not a lot, but a little bit.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Yeah. Well, I'm out here in by Lake Tahoe. Have you? No. Skiing out at Lake Tahoe. Squaw Valley. It's beautiful out here.

Burke Robinson, MD: I know. I, that's one area I have not skied yet. And I've heard the snow is different. It's a heavier snow than the powdery.

Catherine Maley, MBA: But the weather's better. You know, it's like, it's a lot of spring skiing a lot of times. Yes. And that's now that I'm such a, I'm getting old. I don't, I don't want to fight the elements anymore, so I only go if I have to wear, you know, sunglasses. You know, it's got to be sunny. No, no wind.

Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah, I'm jealous. That's a beautiful part of the country and I love Lake Tahoe. I can go there any time of year and have a great time.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Thanks. It's lovely. I need to get up there more often. So, but that was the business side of going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. Let's talk about the marketing to help in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo because you're, you're in a very competitive area there.

Did you, how, how do you differentiate yourself from everybody else? And do you do it any differently now than you used?

Burke Robinson, MD: That's a great question. I, I don't know if I differentiate myself on purpose. I think what differentiates me is my honesty. Mm-hmm. and always giving my best and staying humble. I think that those the main things.

Staying true to what my roots are, which is sometimes facial plastic surgeons like to drift below the neck. Mm-hmm., and I think that dilutes you. That doesn't make you an expert anymore. I can't tell you how many times a week someone goes, I'm coming to you because you only work on the face. There are only pictures of the face.

All you talk about is the face. I want an expert like that. I don't want the brake guy working on my transmission. Right? And so that by itself is huge. So, you've already condensed down quite a bit. Who I am com because there's a lot of general plastic surgeons here and some of them are very good in the face too.

But PA I think patients are becoming very sophisticated in what they're looking for. And me staying true to that has been. I think what also differentiates a lot is reviews. Yep. You know, talking about marketing, I, I will say I was on the bandwagon really early with reviews, and if you Google and look, I, I have quite a few reviews and.

Anything I buy now; I go online and I do a review. Yep. I don't talk. I don't look at what the company says. I look to see what the buyer says and patients several a week like You have such great reviews, I just wanted to meet you in person and see if you're the right person. I think reviews differentiate you quite a bit and doing your best will be reflected in those reviews.

Everyone's going to get a bad review now and then just like the Four Seasons and the Ritz Carlton. But if, as Jeff Siegel says, the solution to pollution is dilution, as long as you're getting a lot of good positive reviews, those few negative reviews just really justify that. Those are all real. It's not, you know, your mom at home with an IP address cranking them out every day.

And so, I think, again, being who you truly are, and letting that be shown through patience and what they say about you differentiates you quite a bit.

Catherine Maley, MBA: You also did a really good job with video testimonials from patients. Mm-hmm., that's the next step that I think we all, we all have to embrace video of The audience today is just too lazy to read or I don't know what's going on, but it's all very visual now and very entertaining.

And how did you, and, and it looks like you've did a, done a good job with that. Was there any secret to getting the patients to do it, which helps you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo? Probably you asking was probably a good start.

Burke Robinson, MD: These are such great questions. So, let's go back to reviews for a second, then we'll go into that. I think the key of getting a review is I have to ask for it.

And a lot of surgeons can be timid, shy, or that's below them to ask for it. But like you said, you got to do it. If you want to get a review, you have to ask for it. Mm-hmm. and you need to get it in the moment. Don't send them a link because that's going to get lost in all their other social media. So, it's done in the exam room at that time.

That's critical. Now as far as getting patients to do video reviews, same. It's asking and it's me asking, not going. I don't want to ask them, send the marketing director in because she would turn around and say, no. The way it's going to work is you have to ask them and asking the patient directly. I just tell them; you have such an amazing result and I'd love to share it with other patients.

You have a great demonstration of. You know jowling that got resolved, or a tip that was under rotated and it's a beautiful rotation, blah, blah, blah, and they're already happy with the results. So that sweet spot again to me is at about six to eight weeks post-op. That's when you ask them, and rarely do they say no.

And I always preface it with, look, we have plenty of videos, which we do. There's no pressure. Mm-hmm., but I think you're well spoken. You look beautiful. Could we have you do a video testimonial? 90% of the time they say yes.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Who would say no to that? I mean, you're getting, you're good at the compliments that, that's helpful in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah. I mean, complimenting them because you really do believe it. We're not going to put up something that's not a great result. We want a great result and we want you to be the one. And they're very ha they're very happy to do it. And then getting a great videographer. We have an amazing videographer. Here in Atlanta and he shows up after five o'clock and our marketing director and I'm there and that's when we shoot it.

And they've really got it down to Grease Lightning now, and they, they streamline it quite a bit and do a great job. So, I'm glad you've got to see them.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh no, they're fantastic. I used to also, I have this strategy to help with going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo where if you're not going to focus on the. all the time. Then at least have a biannual or an annual photo shoot, and it's done on a Saturday.

Mimosas are helpful, or a little wine, and you have a videographer, a photographer, hairstylist, makeup artist wardrobe, like you, and it's all community service providers, so that helps with referrals and you make like a whole event out of it. And it's really fun. It's a fun thing to do. It's a pain in the neck.

It's like a, a, you know, planning a wedding almost. It's an, an event, but it, everyone's relaxed, it's fun, and it's all about, let me tell you, my story. The issue is the timing you catch. I need, you need to catch them when they're ecstatic, not just happy, frankly, they're not even going to remember six months from now.

Like, they're like, they're so used to it. They're like, no. Yeah, it was great. You know? No, we need them to say, changed my. You know, so anyway, there's no one easy way to do that. But boy, putting in the effort like you are and asking yourself, that's exactly how you do it and that ultimately helps in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

Burke Robinson, MD: And I, and I think it's more important for the patients to say how they feel.

Yes, that's where the patient's bond than to me to be on a video. I mean, I'm, I'm in those videos, but I'm not really telling the story. The patients are telling their story and patients will find something that. That person on that video says that, you know, hooks them and they're like, that's how I feel, or that's how I want to say it, or that's what I want to look like.

And so, I think the focus should be the surgeon. Even though we all have the egos and we think it's all about us, it's really about the patient and they want to see how the patient turned out and what they say in their own words. It's been very powerful that.

Catherine Maley, MBA: That's great. Are, are there other marketing strategies, tactics that are working better than ever or working now that or some that don't work anymore, in terms of going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Like, what's working for you and what's not?

Burke Robinson, MD: You know, that's a good question. One thing is, You know, back in the day, and I'm old enough to remember where print was a big deal, right? Print marketing and being on right side inside, cover all that placement. I think print, it's not dead, but it's, it's on C P R.

But we still do some very, very little print marketing just to keep a footprint in that space and looking at it, I would say we probably break even. That's about it. So, it's not somebody that's going to be a lead sales thing, but I still think it reinforces when someone hears my name and then they happen to see it in a magazine.

They probably aren't going to come in because of the magazine, but it was like, oh yeah, that's the guy. So, I think it, it's, it's kind of an indirect thing. I think has been helpful. The reviews we've talked about, I think is indirectly. I didn't think this would be as good as it is, but click pay to click.

Yeah. Pay-per-click. Yeah. Yeah, that has been really, really good. I've been very surprised at how well that has gone. We use reach local. Okay. And Tara Leifer is our account manager and she is a genius. Mm-hmm. And she had to twist my arm to convince me because it was at one of the meetings. Cause I was like, nobody clicks on Advertise.

you know, and I don't want to put my name there. Mm-hmm. Well, we did it and in preparation for this, we looked and our o ROI on that is five to one. Mm-hmm. It's really high. I'm surprised how many people they Google Facelift Atlanta. And if I come up first with click, you know, click advertising, they'll click on that and they will follow through and they'll come in and a lot of they're serious shoppers and they will end up having surgery.

Mm-hmm., here's the caveat for everybody. You want to make sure your competitor isn't paying on their click for your name. Because at one point I found that a couple competitors were bidding on my name. So, when I Googled my name, they came up and said of me, how did you find? So, we have to be careful in that space.

How do you know? You Google your name. When you Google your name and your competitor comes up first, instead of you, either whoever is doing your pay per click advertising is not doing a good job, or they're just outbidding you on your own name.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Right. You don't know. I, that's why t's so murky like this pay per click, it's murky.

You don't know what is going on behind the scenes. Unless you're really looking at these analytics carefully and, and knowing what's, I don't know. I, I think it's fantastic if it's working for you to help you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. That is fantastic.

Burke Robinson, MD: Well, I think it's getting a good rep who knows their business very well. And the other thing is then your website has to match up well with that.

Your s e o and I had I was paying for a company out on the west coast to take care of my website and it was so messed up behind the scenes and I had no idea until I brought a marketing person internal and she started researching everything. We had broken links, the SEO didn't make sense, and once she took over and straightened that all out, then the paper click flows with the SEO O.

It has to all mesh. So, it's, it is a web, but if you have people that are dedicated to it and know what they're doing, it can be very, and you know what you're doing.

Catherine Maley, MBA: That's really smart, which helps you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. You have that whole out of town page that gives you some cache, you know, it, mm-hmm., it, it helps your brand.

Mm-hmm., it just looks good. And the reach helps as well because Google wants you to be so local now. That's why that local's working so well for you. But you also want to be able to reach in case, I mean, do you have many out-of-towners?

Burke Robinson, MD: We've had people from the Bay Area, we had people around the country.

Isn't it interesting? It, it's very fascinating. Sometimes it's because they have family here. Sometimes it's because they used to live here and they trust this environment and sometimes it's just s e o and they end up finding me. And I think you bring up another good point is if you really want to be.

More known regionally or nationally, you have to accommodate your patient. So, we have partnered up with two hotels near our office that are almost a stone’s throw, and they give a discount for our out-of-town patients when they come in. So, it's been really good for them.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Nice. I also noticed you cater to men.

You have a men's section. Now just how, how big of a profit center is that for you? Catering to men and how does that help you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Burke Robinson, MD: I think just like everyone else, it's not the majority. It's probably like 15%, maybe on a good month, 20, but probably about 15%. But you know they, they still keep coming in. They're not going to be really facelifted patients.

They're usually eyelids and, you know, Disport or Botox, that kind of a thing. I enjoy seeing them though. And, and they're what I would call the metrosexuals. They're going to look good too. Right. And they're not over the top.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Crazy. Did you build a man cave for them in your practice?

Burke Robinson, MD: No. If you saw it here in my office it's called the “Bat Cave”.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh, are you serious?

Burke Robinson, MD: Yes.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Oh. What, what does it look like?

Burke Robinson, MD: Well, we have a little shrine for Batman over there. It's got my face on a bobble head. The back of my chair here has a Batman cape, and each, each room in the o office is named, but mine's called the bat cave. It doesn't say Dr. Robinson's office.

It just says Bat cave with the wings. That is just having fun with the staff.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Do you, you don't have a cape?

Burke Robinson, MD: I wish I; I wish I could fly. Yeah. . .

Catherine Maley, MBA: So how, what, what about social media to assist in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo? Are you playing it a little bit, like, are you jumping in or you're, it doesn't help or hurt or...?

Burke Robinson, MD: My approach again to social media.

I, I think that it can, it can be good or I think it can bite. And so, I think what happened during Covid, I, I, I, I mean I've still chuckled at some of the things I saw people doing on social media to stay in front of people cooking a steak. Playing the guitar and singing. I'm like, you're not Emerald. And you're not Bon Jovi.

Okay, so be who you are. Yeah. And I think there can be fatigue from social media when every day or every other day there's something coming out from your office that has nothing to do with what you do. And I think people can sometimes say delete, you know, disengage, don't want to be a part of it. So, my approach has been more, let's keep it educational celebratory, if we win an award or if it's a holiday, you know, veterans Day, whatever it is, and keep it more in that vein.

And we don't find many people falling off our social media. But for me to just do a video to be funny, to show my latest dance move, I don't think that enhances my image. And really, patients really want to see before and after pictures, and that's really where we stick to it. I think some people get a little too goofy, eh, maybe that works for them, but that's not my image.

That's not my style. And patients really want to know, what can you do now? What can you sing for me?

Catherine Maley, MBA: That's for sure. So, we're wrapping up, we're getting close to an hour here. Just I'd like to talk about your mindset and start with how did you learn the business and marketing side of plastic surgery to help you in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo?

Because you guys did not grow up with this, nothing about it in medical school. How did you find, how did you figure it out?

Burke Robinson, MD: Gosh, you know, that's just on the job training. You know what works and what doesn't. You learn from your mentor. You know, I trained under Devvin Manget, who is a brilliant man, and for the marketing.

When I finished my fellowship in 91, he was cutting edge. It's really learning how to change as the times change and what works and what doesn't. Talking to your peers a lot. The ones who will really tell you the truth, not the ones that'll just make up stuff to make them look bigger and better than what they are.

I think you'll learn a lot from that. And I think also, Always looking at it from a consumer side, what would I be looking for if I was trying to find a good facial plastic surgeon? Again, to me, social media and seeing me, you know, make a filet on the grill doesn't tell me a thing about who I am as a surgeon.

Yeah, I'm a nice guy, but really show me your results. I think that that's, looking at it from the consumer side, the servant attitude. How would I want to be treated if I'm coming in with expendable cash? I'm not here because my h m O sent me here. I'm here because I decided to show up, tell them, proved it, why I should be dropping money in your pocket.

So, it's always looking at it from their perspective and, and then it's on the job training and trying what does work and what doesn't work. And you're, you're going to spend some money. and yet nothing as a result. Like as an example, having an open house we used to do that every year. It became an accounting nightmare for us, and it seemed like a year later I'd have this money sitting in the pot, and yet nobody had come to use it.

But I knew I had to hang onto it because when they showed up to use it, I had to buy the product., right? So, we over time realize doing specials every month, working closely with the vendors. They'll always work with you to promote their product and do a two for one or something. And it doesn't cost you anything.

They're going to, you know, resupply what you're saying, you're doing a two for saves you a lot, a lot of money and it's. It gives you something new and fresh to promote every month. And probably the last thing is bringing up marketing person internal. You know, there's not a lot of you walking around, unfortunately, but if you can find someone who really understands cottage industry marketing, not you know, park Avenue Marketing.

Mm-hmm., and it's a whole different breed as you. And that's why you're so busy with what you do, because there's not a lot of you around. And to find someone who's that good that you can bring inside, if you find them. Do it because otherwise, as I mentioned, you're third partying this out, you got somebody in another state and they really don't have their heart and soul into it because they're not seeing you every day.

So, if you can ever find someone who's truly trained in marketing and knows what they're doing and understand social media, s e o website graphics collateral material. That's the kind of person you need inside that'll take a huge weight off your shoulders and let them work with it.

Catherine Maley, MBA: You'll have peace of mind knowing it's getting done.

There are too many you're just too busy to hold vendors accountable. And that's the biggest battle is what are these people doing for me, and I'm, I, am I, why am I paying them and how does that help me in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo? Or what am I getting out of this? And then they send you a 30-page report with numbers on it that you have no idea how to read.

And. That's just such a challenge. But speaking about challenges, because I hope you don't mind if we talk about this. We always talk about, like right now when we do this podcast, everyone's showing their best side. You know, I didn't wake up looking like this, you know, and you didn't just become a surgeon by accident.

You know, could you just tap into your childhood experience that helped groom you to who you are today and gave you the insight of going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. All of them got all these characteristics that you have now. Can you just talk about that a bit because it hasn't been easy for you.

Burke Robinson, MD: Yeah. So, My childhood experience was my, my mom had multiple sclerosis at a, when I was very young.

So early on I was doing a lot more around the house than probably the average child. Loved doing it, mowing the lawn, shoveling the snow in Chicago doing all those things because my dad was more focused on earning a living and taking care of my mom as much as he could. So developed a res an attitude of responsibility early on and being responsible and doing my best because that's what we had to do at home.

And then when my father got injured, all of a sudden, I kind of became the man indirectly for a while there at age 15. And I used to joke around that I was the Uber of 1975 because I was driving them around with my learner's permit to their doctor's appointments. But it was a great inside. You know, how would I say it?

Just a, a way to peer behind the curtain from a patient side and see how my parents were being treated and what a compassionate doctor did, what a responsible doctor would do, and how my parents would feel when they left, good or bad. and then going from there on into college and then being on the provider side, but not as a physician.

But again, on the nursing side or as a clerk, always seeing and staying humble and understanding your roots of really what are you doing, what is your end game, of what you're trying to do? You're trying to help somebody. And I always say to people that even though we're in an elective, a. Environment.

We all went into medicine to help people. Okay. We get paid well for what we do, but we get paid well because we're helping people and we're doing the right thing. And I think during Covid, I, I came to the realization when we came out of Covid and we were so busy. Mm-hmm., I didn't realize how much.

Positive positivity and positive mental health we impart on patients through what we do. No, we're not curing cancer. We would never say that yet. We are filling a void. We're doing something for people that they can't get elsewhere. And if we always maintain that servant attitude and a humble attitude and just always doing the best at that time, and a lot of times that means turning something.

Because it's not going to benefit them or you can't give them what they need. You're going to always be thought of, well, and you'll always be kept busy, because people always think the best of you.

Catherine Maley, MBA: Well, good for you. I, you know, I, I have that Chicago Midwest work ethic, obviously you do too since you’re so good at going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. We were all shoveling snow and mowing lawns and housekeeping and watching kids, and I thought, oh, dear Lord, this is, I'm supposed to be, go out having fun.

What's going on here? Right. So, I feel for you. And that was, that was tough, but you persevere and you're, you, you've really built such a beautiful practice. So, congratulations on your success in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

Burke Robinson, MD: Well, thank you Catherine. I appreciate it. And you've been a part of it too, because I've leaned on you from time to time and we are actually using it right now with some of our surgery coordinators because I always think you can be better.

You can always take it to another level. I mean, that's what you're taught as a surgeon. You always look back and go, what would I have done differently? What could I have done to make that a little bit better? And I think that's the truth. That's the truth for all of your staff. And so, you've always been a, a beacon of light for me and my practice.

And it was so fun to have you introduce me at the last meeting, because I thought that was like a circle of life and I really got a tickle out of that. Yeah.

Catherine Maley, MBA: I just know that if you don't keep learning and growing to help in going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo. You know, you're, you're dying. You really are like, you've got to stay on your game if you want to play it, you know, it's, it changes.

Anyway. How can people get ahold of you if they'd like to?

Burke Robinson, MD: Okay, let's see. My email address is "drr", "drr@robinsonfps.com, which stands for facial plastic surgery robinsonfps.com. And the number here at the office is (770) 667-3090

Catherine Maley, MBA: But your website is Robinson FPS…

Burke Robinson, MD: .Com.

Catherine Maley, MBA: .Com. Yeah. All right.

Everybody that’s going to wrap it up for us today, a Beauty and the Biz and this episode on going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo, with Dr. Robinson.

If you’ve got any questions or feedback for Dr. Robinson, you can reach out to his website at, www.RobinsonFPS.com.

A big thanks to Dr. Robinson for sharing his experiences on going from a 40-surgeon practice to solo.

And if you have any questions or feedback for me, you can go ahead and leave them at my website at www.CatherineMaley.com, or you can certainly DM me on Instagram @CatherineMaleyMBA.

If you’ve enjoyed this episode on Beauty and the Biz, please head over to Apple Podcasts and give me a review and subscribe to Beauty and the Biz so you don’t miss any episodes. And of course, please share this with your staff and colleagues.

And we will talk to you again soon. Take care.

-End transcript for the “40-Surgeon Practice to Solo — with Burke Robinson, MD.”

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Learn from Catherine's 40+ years as marketing and business advisor for top aesthetic practices around the world:

• Tried and tested easy staff strategies to boost practice revenue.
• Hone your team to increase sales without hard-sell pressure.
• Tons of staff-boosting tips and much more!

📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine

⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days

⬇️⬇️⬇️

Welcome to "Beauty and the Biz" where we talk about the business and marketing side of plastic surgery.

I’m your host Catherine Maley, author of Your Aesthetic Practice, What Your Patients are Saying, and consultant to plastic surgeons to get them more patients and profits. 

My guest today is Dr. Philip Miller, a double-board-certified facial plastic surgeon specializing in rhinoplasty and facelift in private practice on the upper east side of Manhattan for more than 2 decades and partner in Gotham Plastic Surgery.

Dr. Miller is a clinical Associate Professor in the Department of Otolaryngology at New York University School of Medicine, where he teaches facial plastic surgery to residents and students.

Dr. Miller has authored numerous manuscript chapters and peer reviewed journal articles for rhinoplasty and neck rejuvenation.

He is regularly invited to lecture on specific techniques with his peers at national facial plastic surgery meetings and has been voted Best Doctors in America and Top Doctor of NY since 2007.

In 2019, he won the Castle Connelly top doctors Award. And has gotten much PR on the Discovery Channel, NBC, several top magazines, as well as The Wall Street Journal and The NY Times.

Listen to the episode to learn:

• How he developed his practice structure for Gotham Plastic Surgery
• How he differentiates himself while successfully reaching his target markets
• How technology is an important aspect in his business model
• What drives him to be successful

Want to learn more about Dr. Philip Miller? Visit his website www.DrPhilipMiller.com

📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine

⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days

⬇️⬇️⬇️

Catherine's biggest marketing podcast to date! A tremendous compendium of rock-solid, easy-to-implement advice for those who want to see their practice soar!

📅 Schedule your free 30-min strategy call with Catherine

⚙️ Restart your practice in 7 days

⬇️⬇️⬇️