Agricology Podcast (Agricology)

Organic livestock farmers Bill & Cath Grayson run the Morecambe Bay Conservation Grazing Company. They practice conservation grazing on semi-natural habitats of woodland & limestone grassland scrub which can be described in agroforestry terms as wood pasture. Our editor talks to them about what they do, how they came to do it, benefits & challenges they’ve encountered & thoughts on wider scale adoption of agroforestry. The episode is produced as part of 'A National Network of Agroforestry Farms' project. 

View the farmer profile for Bill & Cath Grayson here.

Mike Mallett is farm manager of Maple Farm Kelsale, a 138-hectare organic farm in Suffolk which is mostly arable with some permanent pasture, woodland, horticulture & laying hens. He talks about regenerative agriculture, beneficial weeds, intercropping, the extensive agroforestry on the farm & providing for the hens’ health & welfare, with some fascinating insights; from breed selection to innovations in feed supply & his involvement in OK-Net Ecofeed. View the full farmer profile on the Agricology website.

In this episode we explore the science and practice of biofumigation - the use of a temporary brassica (mustard) cover crop to help manage soil pathogens and weeds. Katie Bliss introduces footage from a webinar which features researcher Dr Matthew Back (Harper Adams University) and Alec Roberts (Tozer Seeds) in a lively discussion with a group of growers innovating with enhancing diversity in protected cropping as part of the DiverIMPACTS project.

This third episode of the new Agricology podcast season features Kate Still from the Soil Association’s Farming and Land Use team. Kate comes to the conversation with a whole farm approach in mind and the need to balance what farms can support to create healthy animals, healthy farmers and a healthy farm bank balance with as few inputs as possible. Her quiet wisdom comes across as she considers strategies and approaches to optimising rather than maximising livestock production. We discuss the highlights from some of the Innovative Farmers field labs Kate’s been involved with, which have looked into strategies including the use of herbal leys, winter forage options and transitioning to new grazing systems. We speak about the challenges of getting new grazing strategies ‘right,’ having the infrastructure to make rotational grazing happen, and training staff to be able to do this.  

Show notes: Read about the field labs Kate mentions, the University of Reading diverse forage programme, and the work of New Zealand Advisor John King here: https://tinyurl.com/5dr8kv75   

In the first of a new series exploring optimal carrying capacity, we speak to biodynamic farmer Richard Gantlett, from Yatesbury House Farm in Wiltshire. He talks about farm operations and highlights the approaches used; from dynamic rotational grazing to the role of herbal leys, and what he refers to as being a "forest farm approach." He explains how spending time with Alex Podolinsky has inspired the emphasis he now puts on the use of observation as a farmer. We look into the environmental impacts of livestock and Richard explains how research on his farm shows he has a negative carbon balance. He also touches on some of the tricky elements of the debate surrounding livestock emissions, and perceptions around this subject.

Show notes: Find out about Obsalim, read about Alex Podolinsky and dive in to Richard’s PhD here: https://tinyurl.com/5dr8kv75. 

We are joined by the Sustainable Food Trust's Senior Researcher Robert Barbour for our sixth episode of this season. Tune in to discussions surrounding methane, carbon footprints, and the complexities and challenges of measuring environmental impacts associated with livestock. Robert draws on his experiences as a researcher and his family farm (an upland beef and sheep farm that also produces timber in Highland Perthshire, just north of Pitlochry), to dive into the positive role livestock can play from a food systems and environmental perspective. He considers grazing strategies, livestock breeds, and the role herbal leys can play, whilst emphasising the productivity levels that can be achieved in pasture-based systems. He points out his family farm is running a system that has very low levels of inputs so what determines their carrying capacity is largely what the land can naturally support, and one limiting factor for them is a lack of early season grass growth. 

Show notes: Explore the two papers by Hannah Van Zanten, the paper Robert wrote with Richard Young and Michael Wilkinson that looks at the production of meat and milk from grass, the Agricology profile of his family farm, and learn more about GWP and GWP* here: https://tinyurl.com/5dr8kv75 

Wendy Seel runs “organic, grown with nature, small scale & local” Vital Veg at North Tillydaff farm near Aberdeen. She describes the design of their growing system, ways in which they build soil fertility, attract pollinators & pest predators, increase biodiversity, & get as much diversity & variation in time, space & variety as they can. She particularly focuses on the way in which trees have been integrated & the many beneficial functions they serve. View the full farmer profile on the Agricology website.

In this episode we are joined by Dr Lindsay Whistance, Senior Livestock Researcher at the Organic Research Centre. Lindsay, who started her working life as a dairy herds-woman, comes to the conversation through the lens of animal welfare. The episode is an enlightening exploration of thoughts and ideas relating to optimal carrying capacity. It covers topics including the important partnership between humans and livestock which can be lost when animals are reduced to being just a tool, and the need for wider acknowledgement of animals' fundamental place in the ecology of a landscape, being critically important to ecological health. Lindsay touches on how we can provide for animal’s needs, farming in a way that allows animals to adopt natural behaviours, and approaches that can help balance the relationship between human, animal and environment. She also considers peoples different conceptions of "good animal welfare" and the challenges associated with focusing on health in the round.

Show notes: Access the David Fraser paper and the poem by William Henry Davis that Lindsay mentions here: https://tinyurl.com/5dr8kv75. 

Iain Tolhurst runs one of the longest running stock-free organic vegetable farms in England. In this episode we talk to him about his involvement in the Farm System Health project - which brought together international farmers who have established personal philosophies & strategies of best practice that make them successful in running healthy farms & producing healthy food. We ask him what farm system health means to him & how he relates his practices to the 10 principles of health defined in the project. 

In this episode we hear from organic mixed min till farmer John Pawsey & arable conservation ag no-till farmer Clive Bailye in featured footage from an online event ‘Know your soils and know your sales’ that took place in July 2020 as part of OF&G’s NOCC, with support from the AHDB. Renowned broadcaster Charlotte Smith leads the conversation which focuses on their approaches & practices they deploy that equip their farming businesses with resilience in light of the many environmental & economic challenges.

This episode features our visit to Three Hagges where we were shown around by Woodmeadow officer Dan Carne & one of the founders Ros Forbes Adam. They talk about what a woodmeadow is, potential relevance to farmers, layout of the site, how it was created & is now managed, tips for farmers interested in putting some land over to a combination of woodland & meadow, & thoughts about wider scale adoption of woodmeadows & agroforestry. It is produced as part of 'A National Network of Agroforestry Farms' project.

View accompanying notes & site photographs here.

In this latest podcast we are ‘In the field’ with Julian Gold, farm manager of 800 ha of combinable crops at Hendred Estate in Oxfordshire. He introduces the farm & talks about experiences & aspirations of transitioning to farming in a way that is less harmful to the environment & biodiversity. He describes his soil health & carbon capture strategy, biological methods of pest control trials he is running, & his drive to reduce nitrogen use. You can view the full farmer profile on the Agricology website.

The fifth episode of the season finds us in conversation with Simon Fairlie, recorded earlier this summer when he was still running his dairy operation at Monkton Wyld Court in Dorset. Simon, who was once described by the Guardian as “the most influential and unusual eco-activist you might not have heard of”, brings us a wide ranging conversation that looks at the micro and the macro of carrying capacity. You’ll find us discussing how he managed his herd of two as he produced a range of dairy products for the ‘intentional community’ at Monkton, and how he dealt with grazing and hay production whilst improving grasslands and considering the ecological benefits his approach brought to the 8 acres under his management. This couples with a wider food systems discussion around the role of livestock, rewilding, methane emissions, and the issues associated with an unbalanced production system where he argues the case for a return to mixed farming being required. 

In this fourth episode we are joined by renowned conservation grazier Bill Grayson who brings us his perspective on the concept of optimal carrying capacity and the way that it is deployed within the system he and his wife Cath run as part of the Morecambe Bay Conservation Grazing Company. He discusses how they go about planning putting animals on to a piece of land, the various practical considerations, and the role livestock play and the benefits they can bring to the land, along with the main challenges in relation to the conservation grazing picture against a backdrop of a pervading opinion of ruminants causing climate change. We touch on the impacts of stocking rate, forage management, breed selection, extended calving period, the set stocking versus mob grazing approach, and the difference between ‘maximum sustainable output’ (essentially an economic interpretation) and optimal carrying capacity, and how it fits with agroecological principles.

Show notes: Read about the Chillingham cattle, explore the ‘Less is more' report and the ‘Farming for Change’ model Bill refers to, and access another interesting read recommended by Bill here: https://tinyurl.com/5dr8kv75   

Richard farms beef cattle & cereals biodynamically at Yatesbury House Farm in Wiltshire UK. In this episode we talk to him about his involvement in the Farm System Health project; which brought together international farmers who have established personal philosophies & strategies of best practice that make them successful in running healthy farms & producing healthy food. Richard reflects on exploring health principles with the farmers & how these principles are embedded in his farming practices & approach.

The penultimate episode of this season sees us in conversation with Dan Stevenson, the Head of Integrated Farm Management (IFM) at LEAF. Dan comes to this topic with nearly 20 years’ experience as a farm animal vet. He discusses his veterinary background and the arc his career has followed; moving on to working with LEAF, and along the way starting to think more holistically about livestock production, with a focus on a whole systems approach. We explore the key role nutrition plays within livestock systems and finding the balance between nutrition and animal health. Further to this, Dan touches on mental health, we explore the challenges of adopting extensive systems, and the importance of setting objectives on farms to help support optimal carrying capacity.