A Soulful Revolution (Lauren Grubaugh Thomas)

My guest today (and the first featured Soulful Revolutionary on the debut episode of this podcast!) is my dear friend Hannah Curtis.

Hannah, whose pronouns are she/her, is a mother, spouse, lifelong learner, and Jesus enthusiast who resides en la frontera of El Paso, Texas. She never passes up a chance to discuss theology, abolition, musical theatre, radical parenting, Lucille Clifton’s poetry, and myriad other topics that point her toward awe, wonder, curiosity, and possibility. Hannah is currently a seminarian, studying remotely at Church Divinity School of the Pacific, and this year she will also serve as her children’s elementary school PTA President. She is on Instagram as @awwdacity.

Learn more about the Rio Grande Borderland Ministries Hannah talks about on the podcast and support the good work that org is doing in solidarity with migrants, refugees and asylum-seekers at www.riograndeborderland.org.

My guest on the podcast today is Luke Melonakos Harrison. Luke is an organizer with the Connecticut Tenants Union (@cttenantsunion), an organization he has helped build since it began in 2021. Like labor unions fighting for dignity and power in the workplace, tenant unions do the same but at home—for renters and anyone else without control over their own housing. Luke is an ecumenical Christian on a nomadic journey with God, and a recent graduate of Yale Divinity School.

You can listen to this podcast in your browser, or download it via Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

My guest on the Souful Revolution Podcast today is Gabrielle Rivero, founder of the Lenae Release Method, a research-informed movement method that helps participants learn how to accept, express, and release emotions in the body through movement.

Gabby received her BS in Recreation and Event Management with a double minor in Dance from the University of Florida and received her Master of Art in Theology from Fuller Seminary in 2018. With her background in dance and her extensive research on the rejection of dance throughout Early Christian History, she connects movement to the body and the emotions, as she helps communities and individuals learn how to release, emote, and heal from traumatic and stressful events.

Our conversation about the power of movement covered so many themes, including Black Joy, interrupting generational trauma, and the kind of parenting that meets children in their feelings through compassionate, mirrored movement. The below excerpts are just a few of the highlights of our inspiring conversation, which you can listen to in full using the player above, on Apple Podcasts, or on Spotify.

Lauren Grubaugh Thomas: I want to begin by asking you to share about what it means to you to be a soulful revolutionary.

Gabrielle Rivero: Yeah, that's a beautiful question.

I was laughing about it when I first heard it because I kept asking myself, am I truly a soulful revolutionary?

But as I think through it and I process the work that I do and the spaces that I've engaged in, I think for me being a soulful revolutionary is basically being someone that allows for transformation to happen, that sits in the space to hold space for people to process, to engage with themselves, to engage with the world, to show up fully as ourselves, naked and exposed, being vulnerable to our emotions, being vulnerable to our bodies, being vulnerable to the world around us.

LGT: Naked and exposed. That's really striking because you include in your bio this line about having studied the rejection of dance. I'd love to hear you share more about why, in spaces of Christian faith, has dance been something seen as dangerous, as problematic? And how do you navigate that as you're welcoming people into the space that is naked and exposed, that is vulnerable?

GR: Yeah, that's a beautiful question. And one that I could go hours on, as I've done all this research. But to give a synopsis of what has happened throughout history, it's really that as a society, we have understood movement as sinful, and some of that comes from the language of the Bible.

In the New Testament we have this woman that is dancing. It's very vague on the type of dancing she's doing…what is happening in her movements, in her body, but she pleased the king. She pleased King Herod. And because of that, he then says, “I'll do anything you want.” (Her response) was, “I want the head of John the Baptist.” And we see John the Baptist being beheaded. 

What happens often from that one passage of scripture is this idea… that dance elicits sin.

And then we even go back further to look at early philosophers, we look at Plato, we look at Fado. Those early philosophers…they saw the body as this thing that was disconnecting them from God, (and) they tried to get further and further away from it. But what they were really doing was they were actually trying to get further and further away from their emotions.

And what ended up happening is we end up seeing this long line of this rejection of the body. We see this rejection of the emotions.

So a lot of what my work ends up becoming is a space to say, “Your bodies are OK. Your bodies were made perfectly.”

And you can't actually connect to God without it.

LGT: What you're describing is that… movement is healing. Movement is nonviolence. Movement is how we reconnect with Spirit.

GR: Research is coming out saying when we move, we receive dopamine. That when we move, we can engage with the world in a way that actually makes us feel better, in a way that actually makes us feel whole, in a way that actually brings back memories to the brain. That movement allows us to engage with the world in ways that we haven't even processed yet, in ways we haven't even engaged with yet.

(Movement) allows us to connect to ourselves in ways that allow us to be whole and happier and healthier beings.

LGT: I wonder if you could speak a little bit more about how these spaces help folks to heal from trauma, particularly as you're working with (those) who are becoming aware of the trauma of white supremacy carried in their bodies, and what that means for you as a Black woman to be doing this work, to be holding space for yourself and for others to heal from the trauma inflicted by the violence of white supremacy in our world.

GR: I've been finding myself now in a space and time where I am holding space for Black women to process. We are giving Black women access to their ancestral roots that they have yet to tap into.

We miss this in society, where these women have not had spaces to process, have not had spaces to be angry. That’s a serious emotion to even engage with….we're afraid we're going to be labeled as the angry Black women. We're afraid we're going to get the cops called on to us. We're afraid for our safety that someone might hurt us for being angry.

So I said, “OK, let's engage with the emotion of anger together.”

For Black people — women and men — we often say we don't have spaces to express. We don't have spaces to be angry where we feel safe to process our anger. But inviting people… to come together and say, hey, express your anger, yell if you need to, let it out. That actually allows and invites healing into generational trauma that people have not even been able to access."

Learn more and sign up for an online class at the Express & Release web site. Keep up with this healing movement on Facebook and Instagram.

A Soulful Revolution is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This month’s featured Soulful Revolutionary is the Rev. Jean-Pierre Seguin (they/them), who serves as Priest-in-Charge of The Episcopal Church of Grace and Resurrection, East Elmhurst Queens. Living in Brooklyn, New York, they are active in collective projects for mutual aid and social transformation, especially in the areas of racial justice, housing, LGBTQ+ liberation, and care for migrants. They love their cats, biking, and playing music with friends.

Our conversation covered a lot of (holy!) ground, including rituals for radicals (listen for the anarchist funeral and the goth wedding), what they learned at Standing Rock from Indigenous elders during the water defense movement, and building a church culture that sees all people as beloved children of God. They way they speak of humility as a spiritual practice is going to stay with me for a long, long time.

A Soulful Revolution is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Listen to the interview in full using the player above, on Apple Podcasts, or on Spotify. If you prefer to read a text version of the interview, just click on the tab that says “Transcript.” Here are a few highlights of our conversation:

* On ritual: “People don’t tend to think of radicals as people who need ritual, and yet, we made a space for grief and celebration in the backyard of a gallery. It was a necessary and beautiful moment.”

* “A lot of (ritual) comes down to traveling light. A lot of it can be done very DIY. People relish and savor these moments they can come together and participate in ritual. It’s a lot more based around practice than around ideological uniformity.”

* On activism: “People think more about the fire and less about the balm. What’s less visible is the dreaming that happens of a better world. And that can be enacted through collective ritual.

* On staying grounded: “If I’m walking but I don’t feel where my feet are planted, that’s a wake up call. I’ve gotta be able to connect to the natural world around me if I’m going to be able to connect to the people around me. It's also about seeing the beauty and seeing the joy and seeing what people are creating, being open to where that leads, encountering people in a compassionate way and hoping that they connect to you in the same way.”

I’d love to hear from you! What resonated with you from this month’s interview? What practices might you like to try? What questions will you carry with you on your journey?

This month’s Soulful Revolutionary is Andre Henry, a hope-dealing artist contending for social change with clarity and courage in the public square. Our conversation highlights the powerful pairing of resilience (an essential “collection of inner strengths” for preserving well-being amidst the violence which oppression enacts on the body), with revolution (courageously striving against the status quo for the world that could be). For Henry, both are necessary — and so much the better when practiced in communities of belonging that value both grace and growth. Woven throughout this episode is the depth and delight of a decade-long friendship, and it brings me so much joy to share a snapshot of our ongoing conversation with you.

Follow him on Instagram @theandrehenry and find his music, merch and more at his website.

More about Andre Henry...

Andre Henry is a creative truthteller, equipped with revolutionary insight, fierce vulnerability, and conscious, soulful, cinematic, pop anthems.

A songwriter since he was a boy, Andre was inspired by watching his father —a reggae musician and activist of Jamaican and Cuban roots—put rebellious chants of love and freedom to skanking rhythms on the guitar in their immigrant home in Stone Mountain, Georgia.

Andre was studying theology when the killing of Philando Castile by the Minneapolis Police Department triggered an awakening that caused him to cut ties with his evangelical faith and begin speaking out against racial violence, declaring the good news that “it doesn’t have to be this way.” For several months, he lugged a 100-pound boulder around the Los Angeles area, to visually express how anti-Black racism burdens the Black psyche. His community organizing and writing for racial justice have made him a trusted global voice on nonviolent struggle for social progress. He recounts this journey into the racial justice movement in his bestselling memoir-manifesto All the White Friends I Couldn’t Keep.

His work has been featured in The Nation, The New Yorker, New York’s Lincoln Center, The Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington D.C., and Super Bowl LVI. A graduate of 1500 Sound Academy in Inglewood, California, he is based in Los Angeles. Whether he's marching the streets with local activists, writing his books, or performing his music, Andre is here to speak truth, spread joy, and shift culture through everything he creates.

This month’s Soulful Revolutionary, the Rev. Leyla King, locates her call to the ministry within her grandparents’ experience of fleeing the 1948 Nakba in Palestine. The Palestinian-American Episcopal priest takes courage from the faith her ancestors kept amidst devastating loss and trauma as she advocates for Palestinian voices to be amplified within the church — which she understands as itself a sacred trust from many generations of Palestinian Christians before her — and society.

For Leyla, storytelling and forgiveness are vital practices for navigating life and ministry, especially in this moment. She believes in the power of stories to unveil difficult truths while softening hearts, and in that spirit is working on turning her grandmother’s memoirs into a novel. She finds inspiration for the rigorous work of forgiveness in her conviction that God is good and is bringing about justice. And she does all of this with gracious humility and a delightful sense of humor, making for deeply nourishing conversation. I am so grateful to Leyla for the opportunity to share this episode with you.

Links:

* Rev. Leyla is a founding member of The Small Churches Big Impact Collective (smallchurchesbigimpact.org).

* She writes about her experiences as a Palestinian, a clergywoman and a mother at thankfulpriest.com. 

Recommended reading from Rev. Leyla:

* Ghassan Kanafani’s novella Return to Haifa

* Naomi Shihab Nye’s poetry and her children’s novel, The Turtle of Michigan

Questions for reflection: Do you recognize in yourself some of the ways in which ancestral trauma manifests? What about ancestral faith, love, or joy? What stories are you being invited to bend your ear toward today? Might there be truths you need to hear that would be more easily digested in the form of a story?

“Yeah, I am a Black, queer, young man, and I believe with every fiber of my being that God embraces me as I am.”

So says the Rev. Nitano Muller, this month’s Soulful Revolutionary.

The 35-year-old hails from Ocean View, a small fishing-community outside of Cape Town, South Africa.  As a trained elementary school teacher, ordained Anglican Priest and social justice activist; Nitano's passions lie at the intersection of education, faith and justice issues. He describes himself as a juggler of books, chalices and a social life. He currently serves as the Rector of St Peter, Blue Downs, in the Anglican Diocese of False Bay and as Diocesan Canon for Young People.

Our conversation covers a lot of ground, including:

* How embodied practices have helped Nitano tap into his innate goodness,

* how he illuminates the dignity of those in a community that has faced dignity violations for generations,

* and how he sees South Africa as a collective contending for justice at the global scale by advocating for Palestinians at the International Court of Justice.

This conversation was, as Nitano likes to say, a true delight. Get ready to catch a glimpse of your own goodness.

March is Women's History Month, underscoring the importance of my conversation with this month’s Soulful Revolutionary, Liz Cooledge Jenkins, and her recently released book, Nice Churchy Patriarchy: Reclaiming Women’s Humanity from Evangelicalism.

Liz is a writer, preacher, former college campus minister. She writes at the intersections of faith, feminism, and social justice, and her work can be found at places like Sojourners, The Christian Century, Christians for Social Action, and Feminism and Religion, as well as her blog lizcooledgejenkins.com. She is on Instagram as @lizcoolj and @postevangelicalprayers. Liz lives in the Seattle area with her husband and their black cat Athena.

Liz and I have in common an evangelical background fraught with the kind of subtle yet pernicious sexism that consistently leaves you walking away from interactions asking, “Did that just happen because I’m a woman?” We both ultimately left behind such settings, finding a spiritual home in places expressing greater clarity about the value of women’s gifts and empowering women’s exercise of leadership. Liz, for her part, wrote a brilliant book about it.

This episode is a deep dive into the ways sexism operates in spaces that claim to be welcoming to all. We also talk about its antidotes, including learning from intersectional feminism (Liz has been deeply shaped by Black feminist and LGBTQ+ writers), and nurturing the kind of countercultural communities that empower everyone to bring their best and fullest selves.

This month’s Soulful Revolutionary is the Rev. Dr. Jerry Maynard (he/they), aka the People's Priest. A spiritual renegade, social revolutionary, and Two-Spirit Indigenous Person (Xochihua), Father Jerry strives to offer healing medicine at the intersections of church & society through pastoral care & public witness in Houston, TX. 

“My activism began in my hospital bed,” Fr. Jerry says. The child who advocated for their well-being grew into a youth who participated in antiwar demonstrations in the early 2000s, and then an adult whose activism has included serving as a water protector at Standing Rock, protesting the NRA’s annual convention, and robust advocacy for the trans community in Texas.

Fr. Jerry crucially reminds us that we are Creation, not simply part of it; that we cannot afford to divorce spirit and strategy; and that rest is resistance: “When in doubt, take a nap.”

Follow Fr. Jerry @thepplspriest, and learn more about their nonviolence teaching and training here and at their website.

A Soulful Revolution is a fully listener-supported program. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber on Substack.

This month’s Soulful Revolutionary is Ananth Das, an artist and kundalini yogi currently pursuing their doctorate in clinical psychology.

Ananth bring immense delight and insight to this wide-ranging conversation about mysticism, decoloniality, neurodivergence and spiritual practice.

Ananth graciously allowed us to highlight one of their pieces on the Soulful Revolution Substack. Check it out here.

Connect with Ananth on Instagram via their personal page @ananth.the.alien and their artist page @alien.daydreams. View more of Ananth’s work at their website: www.aliendaydreams.life/our-work

I am delighted to feature two soulful revolutionaries on this episode: Katherine Bogen and Dr. Hani Chaabo. Bogen is an antizionist Jewish woman and Chaabo is the grandson of a Palestinian refugee. Both work in the field of mental health, both are queer, and together, they are the hosts of the SuperHumanizer podcast, where they unpack Israel-Palestine and seek to promote empathy and understanding across polarizing viewpoints through the power of story.

Our conversation delves into the difficulty of healing moral injury amidst an ongoing genocide. We talk about the spirituality that gives these activists strength. And we cover the sensitive topic of humanizing those who are actively doing harm.

Follow Katie on Instagram: @k.w.bogen and on TikTok: @sexualityscholar.

Follow Hani on Instagram: @thestressdoc

Follow SuperHumanizer Podcast: @superhumanizer

The two organizations mentioned in this episode are Children Not Numbers and Standing Together.

A Soulful Revolution is a reader and listener-supported project. Join the movement by becoming a subscriber on Substack: https://laurengrubaughthomas.substack.com/

It was an absolute delight to interview my friend and colleague, the Rev. Lizzie McManus-Dail, as this month’s Soulful Revolutionary. Lizzie's joy is absolutely contagious, and it emerges authentically from her profound spirituality and firm commitment to justice.

Catch the unabridged video version of this conversation by becoming a Paid Subscriber on Substack.

Lizzie (she/her) has lived all over the world, with her boots now rooted in Austin, Texas. She’s living her dream as the founding planter of Jubilee Episcopal Church! She is passionate about evangelism for a God who makes each of us for joy, which is why you might see her doing silly dances and talking about church history on Instagram & TikTok with her combined 80k followers, or on her podcast with fellow Episcopal priest Rev. Laura - And Also With You.  She’s thrilled to share her debut book, a first-of-its-kind devotional for the disillusioned, the deconstructing, and the disenchanted called: God Didn’t Make Us to Hate Us: 40 Devotions to Liberate Your Faith from Fear and Reconnect with Joy  with TarcherPerigree of Penguin Random House, due out in February 2025. 

Rooted in the timeless philosophical tradition of dialogue, this conversation with philosophy of religion scholar Erin Choi is a welcome pause from the blur of changemaking activity around us — a chance to center yourself in your values and discern what is yours to do in the work for justice.

About my guest:

Erin Choi is a PhD Candidate at the University of Oxford. She is currently working on virtue ethics--specifically focusing on the virtue of humility within a Platonic framework. Through her work on humility as a moral and epistemic virtue, she envisions applying this virtue in the context of political polarization and the ethics of conversation.

Erin is interested in cultivating virtues such as curiosity, open-mindedness, and attention to other people and affirming the plurality of perspectives and values across different religious and political views. She enjoys learning from interdisciplinary methods and incorporating different cultural and religious traditions. In her free time, she enjoys reading Greek mythology, Russian novels, and Arabic poetry. 

***

Find more great episodes and essays at the intersection of spiritual transformation and social change on our Substack.

Meet Soulful Revolutionary Ishmeet Kalra

Ishmeet was born and raised in New Delhi, India. She immigrated to California with her family and pursued her passion for science, earning a Master's degree in Molecular Biology & Microbiology with a minor in Humanities from San José State University.

Since 2008, Colorado has been her home and she loves the stunning natural beauty and the majestic mountains. She is actively involved with the Douglas County School District which has allowed her to gain a deeper understanding of the needs of students, families, educators, and administrators. She is a long time advocate for educational equity, STEM education/enrichment, and evidence-based education policies. Her passion for educational equity and STEM education extends beyond her own community, as she volunteers to bring STEM enrichment activities to underserved schools.  

Ishmeet is driven by a deep commitment to academic excellence, ensuring equal access to opportunities for every student, and fostering safe and inclusive school environments that promote a sense of belonging.

A Soulful Revolution is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Links from Ish for more learning and enrichment

* Learn about Sikhism

* Ish’s preferred meditation cards

* Guardian article on what culture wars cost public schools

* “How Culture Wars Have Derailed School Board Meetings Across the Country”

* Maslow before Bloom (on meeting human needs before educational objectives)

* What Ish is reading right now: Valarie Kaur’s Sage Warrior: Wake to Oneness, Practice Pleasure, Choose Courage, Become Victory

* “How racism in a Colorado middle school left one student with PTSD”

* Beloved Community equity consulting

H. Marissa Montes considers every encounter with a client to be sacred ground. An immigrant herself, Montes knew from a young age that she wanted to be an attorney. She co-founded the Loyola Law School Immigrant Justice Clinic in her 20s, and for the last decade she has been consistently recognized as a powerful advocate for the immigrant community in Los Angeles and beyond — with a recently established presence in Guadalajara, Mexico taking her work international. She has mentored many young attorneys, empowering them to root their work, as she has, in love.

Attentive listeners will notice that this episode was recorded before the recent US elections. While the incoming administration’s immigration policy poses a massive threat to immigrant communities, Marissa was clear in our conversation that what was true for her before the election would remain so in its aftermath:

"I take comfort in knowing I am where I meant to be at this moment, and I'm having these opportunities to help and support my community. I'm going to do it regardless of the situation. God, the universe, higher powers that be, have allowed me and my colleagues and my students to be in this place for a reason.

This conversation could not be more timely, and I cannot wait for you to catch courage from this extraordinary Soulful Revolutionary.

More about Marissa:

H. Marissa Montes is the Professor and Director Loyola Law School’s Immigrant Justice Clinic (“LIJC”), a community based clinic that provides free immigration legal services to the Eastside of Los Angeles in partnership with Dolores Mission Parish and Homeboy Industries. In addition to the clinic, Marissa teaches courses in regards to US Immigration law, Cross-Cultural Competency and Trauma-Informed Lawyering, as well as spearheaded Loyola Binational Migrant Advocacy Project that provides services to both migrants in transit and deportees residing in Tijuana and Guadalajara, Mexico. Marissa serves as a visiting professor at the ITESO in Guadalajara, Mexico, where she teaches U.S. asylum law and serves migrant shelters. Marissa was recently recognized as a Leonard I. Beerman Social Justice fellow, and has been recognized as a Top Young Lawyer by the ABA (2017) and HNBA (2019). She serves on the California Department of Justice, Calgang Database Technical Advisory Committee and was appointed by Mayor Eric Garcetti to serve on the inaugural Los Angeles Commission on Civil and Human Rights. She received her B.A. in International Relations and Spanish from the University of Southern California and her J.D. from Loyola in 2012.

Follow Loyola Law School Immigrant Justice Clinic on Instagram.

Happy New Year, dear Soulful Revolutionary!

I’m writing you today in anticipation of Epiphany, celebrated in Western Christianity on January 6. Epiphany is about the manifestation of Christ’s light and truth to all the peoples of the earth. The Magi — wise ones from the East — visit the Christ Child with their gifts. They then defy the autocrat who wants nothing more than to destroy the hope this child represents. Refusing to divulge Jesus’ whereabouts to King Herod, the Magi return to their homes by another way. The king then enacts a genocide, ordering the killing of all boys two and under, forcing Jesus and his parents to flee as refugees to Egypt.

Last January, inspired by this story, I convened a group of Christians for a Free Palestine to dispel the shroud of Christian Zionist propaganda through the power of collective truth-telling. Together, we participated in liturgy and reflected on lessons from the Magi, coming home to our common humanity by refusing to cooperate with genocide.

This conversation continues to be terribly timely, and so today I am sharing it anew. I hope you’ll attend to these wise and inspiring speakers with an ear to hear what these epiphanies inspire you to embody.

Featured panelists include:

* The Rev. Leyla Kamalick King, Palestinian American Episcopal priest and co-founder of Palestinian Anglicans and Clergy Allies

* Palestinian theologian Daniel Bannoura

* The Rev. Halim Shukair, Lebanese priest of the Arabic-language faith community Mother of Our Savior Church in Dearborn, Michigan

* And other young Christian leaders for a Free Palestine: the Rev. Jean-Pierre Seguin, the Rev. Tory Moir, the Rev. Jerry Monroe Maynard, and Lana Melonakos-Harrison, and myself.

Here’s a highlight from Palestinian theologian Daniel Bannoura:

“We Palestinian Christians could not celebrate Christmas while our people are killed. We cannot celebrate while Muslims and Christians are killed incessantly in the Gaza Strip.

We are in mourning. We are grieving. Christ is born under the rubble. It is not a silent night. It is not a holy night. Nothing is calm and nothing is bright.

Here at this Christmas, we are reminded that Jesus was born in the midst of a massacre committed by the ruling authorities. We are reminded that Jesus was a refugee who was forced to leave his home with his parents because of the atrocities committed by the ruling authorities.

And so what would the Magi present to such a miserable child? Perhaps some gauze to wound up the lacerations on his body, perhaps some polluted water to clean the blood off of his body, perhaps a shroud to wrap around his dead body as it is laid in an unmarked burial site.

We're also lamenting, no, we are enraged by the seemingly unwavering Western Christian support for the mass death of Palestinian innocents in Gaza….

We refuse to give in, even when our siblings abandon us. We are steadfast in our hope, resilient in our witness, and continue to be committed to the gospel of faith, hope, and love in the face of tyranny and darkness.

I hope you’ll watch the full presentation and share it with your communities.

A Soulful Revolution is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.